Well Tom has made it clear to discuss this matter on Magic's Blog.... So... Yeah
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Xeal wrote:
Magicbeast20 wrote: Im arguing for the poor treatment of a different member, how that makes me a hypocrite because you have some rediculous idea that I get special treatment (even though my blog was suppressed for a completely rational argument) is beyond me. Trolls will be trolls, also how is Naruto Universe coming along. | |
Masterdan wrote:
Xeal wrote: And I'm arguing unfair treatment towards BYOND's entire player base. People get their games ripped all the damn time, with no punishment whatsoever. Yet, you somehow got Tom to take action and ban the people that have your source code- an anime game at that. What about the other poor folks that have their work stolen? Nothing. It's the same thing, Neblim is being treated unfairly, and you're receiving special treatment. | |
Bootyboy wrote:
You have suppressed every way he has tried to express his discontent. Technically I haven't suppressed any of them. But I've agreed with the hiding of those posts. The problem is, his "every way" has been, in my opinion, over the line each time. And excepting edits I never saw to the original post, I'm really only aware of two ways it was put. The more recent "non-specific" post wasn't substantively different. For my part I feel that "You are a horrible liar" is a far cry from "This contradicts earlier assertions that no one would be banned in advance". I don't see how it's intellectually dishonest to point out that there's a distinction between saying there's a contradiction in a straightforward manner vs. "You are a horrible liar". Yes, pointing out the contradiction is tantamount to calling someone a liar, but it also isn't loaded. As Tom said, it was a subtle attack. Heck, even saying "That statement was a lie" would have been marginally better than the direct dig. | |
Masterdan:
I am not saying that SilkWizard gets special attention because he's polarizing. I'm saying that he brings out a lot of passion, which breeds bias and the illusion that we give special attention. It is obvious that you can't stand SilkWizard and I strongly doubt you'd be so passionate about Neblim's post if it were criticizing a user you were friends with. The problem with using blogs for consumer complaints it that they are not a liberal sounding board, because the owner (the person making the complaint) can just edit any negative comments. If we had a completely open policy of allowing posts criticizing other users and games to go through, what prevents someone from just making up a complaint about a game and slandering it? I am not saying Neblim's complaint wasn't legitimate, but honestly, we don't know. I'm sure there is a lot more to the story than he being banned for "nothing". As such, we do have a quick trigger to suppress posts that essentially are directed at another user (usually as an attack). Now while this case may have been borderline, it was not really that exceptional given the moderation history. The only reason it's really being played out as such is because it involved one of our more controversial users. | |
Neblim wrote:
So do me a favor, ban me. Ban me from this site so I can get on with my life, and you yours. All you have to do is shut off the pager, and close the browser. Uninstall BYOND, and walk away. He shouldn't have to ban you, you should have the maturity to walk away yourself if you need to. | |
Tom wrote:
Masterdan: I dont really believe that, we originally had a conversation going on Neblim's blog with Silkwizard, I said that if he tells me what Neblim did to be deserve being banned and it was reasonable that Silk would be in the right and I would defend him instead. What happened was that Silk made a comment about how instead of bothering, he would go to the liquor store with Neblim's 8 dollars and buy a 6 pack of corona and a lime and get drunk. So that level of arrogance, compounded with absolutely no intention to be fair or explain why what he did was reasonable, has lead to escalating the public anger against him. Then the moderators come and close the whole complaint down for no reason? Of course we will be mad, Silkwizard is arrogantly being vicious and stealing people's money and the byond moderators have decided that a complaint about this, because it is "targeted at a person" which of course it is Tom, when a person takes money from you your response will be targeted at them, that you take the post down? I dont see the strength to your position, honestly, I think you are defending the actions taken but would never recommend them if you had been the one making the decision when the time came. You know better than that. I think its disingenuous for you to say that because theres no way to know for sure if Neblims complaint was true, he cant post it on BYOND. Its his blog Tom! it isnt like we hold up everything people say on their blog as fact, people have the right to know that somebody has a dissenting opinion, but one instance of this behavior being posted to somebodys blog would have a negligible effect on silkwizards game unless multiple others corroborated similar stories. So you know, honestly, why cant we let people say negative things on their blog if theres a basis for it? Is it really going to do BYOND any good to moderate away anything critical of how things are done, or what people are doing? | |
Neblim wrote:
Mikau wrote: In fairness, the byond community has supported you a great deal. The moderators may have been less than fair, but your voice has been heard far more through this debacle than it would have otherwise. | |
I can see a bit of what the BYOND administration is saying here as valid but I don't think they need to pander to terrorists.
Masterdan wrote: Your being an idiot Empirez, Hey don't forget to prove your claims. Empirez. Lummox JR wrote: And as I said, if Silk has gotten away with similar attacks in the past, that's a mistake--which people could contribute to correcting by flagging any posts of that nature that appeared in the future. Can we go the quicker route and flag the ones that aren't as good? EmpirezTeam wrote: If he was a liar, people would've been banned on the day of NEStalgia's release. And if he held grudges, he wouldn't have allowed those people to come in. I think the real reason here is that he feared he would have no players considering most people who are active on the members blogs are banned by Silk. | |
Neblim wrote:
Mikau wrote: Think about what you are doing.Think, is this really serious enough that I should quit byond over something I payed 8 dollars for? Either way byond will be able to deal fine without your 18$ a year subscription.Wish you the best. | |
In my honest opinion, I don't care if the disclaimer was legit. I don't care if he had the right to do what he did, it was wrong. When adminstrations try to go by the book and follow closely to their own rules, they get it in the butt because of faggots using loopholes. I mean, it's not this is the courtroom or something. It's possible to be flexible by all means.
If someone is doing something MORALLY wrong, even if they found a loophole around the rules they should be dealt with. | |
RedDead160 banned. :)
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Quite the interesting controversy, eh?
I can't believe I read all those comments. In my personal opinion, there are far more important matters that need to be addressed than this. Then again, they'll probably never be addressed. C'est la vie. | |
Magicbeast20 wrote:
RedDead160 banned. :) Good, he's just butthurt that hes banned from byond. Hence why he trys so hard to stay on the site. | |
SilkWizard rebuttal here: http://members.byond.com/Silkwizard
Masterdan rebuttal to rebuttal here: http://members.byond.com/Masterdan Blog bans forthcoming for people failing to respect my request that we contain this drama to this blog. | |
Hey, why was my post removed? <_<
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Tom wrote:
SilkWizard rebuttal here: http://members.byond.com/Silkwizard My bad. | |
I don't think Silk got the idea that this argument was about BYOND moderation. Not him.
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Magicbeast20 wrote:
I don't think Silk got the idea that this argument was about BYOND moderation. Not him. Thats what I wanted to explain to him :(. | |
#143 Masterdan:
I thought you propaganda kiddies grew a pair and got jobs or something.
Yeaaaah- no.
My original post was regarding Masterdan's hyprocrisy, how he clearly got special treatment from Tom, and is now running wild complaining about the unfair treatment of BYOND members. Anything he says regarding fairness should not be accounted for.