Pick up bad programming practices? You erase bad programming practices over time when you learn more efficient ones.
This doesn't happen when you learn to do things the right way the first time.
Zack101 wrote:
This doesn't happen when you learn to do things the right way the first time. | |
No SuperAntx is absolutely correct.
I learned to work on BYOND originally by working on a Zeta rip, and it did absolutely nothing positive for my programming practices. It gets you into bad habits and limits you severly. It was when I took actual programming courses in high school and university that I gained a strong understanding of object oriented programming languages and was able to make a game worth playing (GOA :D). If I had insisted on being stubborn and learning off of stolen source codes and hadnt eventually picked up the DM guide and a few Java/C++ books then I would never have actually understood how to do things, I'd only know how to modify existing code. | |
Masterdan wrote:
No SuperAntx is absolutely correct. I wasn't able to understand C++/Java until I started working in DM and playing around with the Jinketsu source. Playing around to see "what does what" and "which does which". Not so much editing pieces of materials and continuing to edit pieces of materials. When I first attempted to learn coding I went through the DM guide and didn't understand a bit of anything they were saying. I was able to work in Stat() and other things without ever understanding anything of what does what. The more I played around with Jinketsu(instead of worked on to make a game) I began to see why certain things to such and that is what made me sway away from the code and produce things on my own. Although it may be different because I also had someone who was guiding me along the way helping me understand anything within the code and how it works. I don't mean editing a source just to make a game. I mean editing/playing with a source to figure out how something work. The same principle would go by me editing and playing with a library resource, except it was made for that purpose compared to the ripped source which was made for entertainment and not study. | |
I know what your saying Zack, but some more modest "Hello World" and etc mini projects made from scratch through the guidance of an actual taught course or really well written online tutorial will make sure you understand every peice of the puzzle instead of trying to reverse engineer your understanding which honestly is a roundabout way of doing it (and leads to misunderstandings.)
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I know what you're saying Zack, but some more modest "Hello World" and etc mini projects made from scratch through the guidance of an actual taught course or really well written online tutorial will make sure you understand every peice of the puzzle instead of trying to reverse engineer your understanding which honestly is a roundabout way of doing it (and leads to misunderstandings.)
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Masterdan wrote:
I know what you're saying Zack, but some more modest "Hello World" and etc mini projects made from scratch through the guidance of an actual taught course or really well written online tutorial will make sure you understand every peice of the puzzle instead of trying to reverse engineer your understanding which honestly is a roundabout way of doing it (and leads to misunderstandings.) Tbh, I actually did wish I started out with that but I started out with BYOND without knowledge that it was even a full-fledged community. When I first came, I thought it was just a library of games ripe for playing and advertising. Didn't think there were actual people posting around, helping others and I learned of the resources area pretty much later. But yeah, you're right. I do feel though that BYOND is slowly changing for the better. Problems like these won't even occur in the next 5 years, I hope. | |
Yeah, your experience is similar to mine. Things have improved dramatically for new game makers.
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Zack101 wrote:
I'm confused, how is it still a rip or is this task just impossible? That's the point. The game contains absolutely nothing from the previous source. It's like a long-road way of just making an original game from scratch. So... If X is Ripped. Person takes X. Person replaces every A in X with B. X isn't X anymore. It's Y. X being Source. Y being Original Source. A being Resource. B being Original Resource. | |
Dark Vendetta wrote:
Zack101 wrote: Motivation and other things. If you have someone playing the game you're working on periodically throughout the year you have more motivation to finish things and make things better. Training wheels, it's just an extra push and then you eventually get all of X to disappear with all Y. Just because some people can't code from scratch. Tbh, I actually made a quick source just for me to delete everytime I code a quick code file just cause seeing blanks everywhere kinda dismotivates me since I auto think: "Great, I gotta do the icons and sh--..." So I normally fill a lot of my sources with useless junk from my other sources just to delete later on when I have enough things in there to feel comfortable. Sounds a little weird. ._. | |
Zack101 wrote:
Sorry, I edited my reply before this one to make it more clear. Motivation and other things. If you have someone playing the game you're working on periodically throughout the year you have more motivation to finish things and make things better. I wouldn't really consider that. I'd develop a game not to please the community only or a player or two. I develop games because it's something I would want to play. Something where I would join Example Game and go "You know what, that's not right. You could easily do X and it'll produce better results" or "That's cool and all, but X is more efficient and fun." If YOU are/becoming bored of your project, you'll lose motivation more than any motivation you'll get from anyone telling you that your game is good. Why else would you waste time doing something that you don't want. Training wheels, it's just an extra push and then you eventually get all of X to disappear with all Y. Just because some people can't code from scratch. No. No. No. Pre-Existing source codes NOT developed by you are no-no. You didn't create the code, so you have less understanding of: A) What it's supposed to do. B) What it does. C) Every/Any Loophole. D) Understanding how to tweak/alter X to produce Y. The whole point IS to code from scratch. Otherwise, you'll never learn right. If someone keeps doing something for you, you won't get the experience and hands-on fulfillment. Tbh, I actually made a quick source just for me to delete everytime I code a quick code file just cause seeing blanks everywhere kinda dismotivates me since I auto think: "Great, I gotta do the icons and sh--..." So I normally fill a lot of my sources with useless junk from my other sources just to delete later on when I have enough things in there to feel comfortable. Sounds a little weird. ._. It sounds weird because it is weird. Use plain "placeholders" that you make. Now, I won't advise switching from Code to Graphics because you want to have a consistent programming style and graphics style. Otherwise, you could potentially look back later on and go "What was that? Why'd I do that?" If you really must have eye-pleasing graphics, make a complete tile-set that fits just about any and all projects you'll be working on. Don't take breaks. Don't pause. If you want to finish the tile-set, you need a consistent palette and style. If you even take 5 minutes and go do something else and come back, your style could change just a little bit but enough to have 2 different styles clashing each other. You won't ever have the corrupt ways of using ripped icons any more, plus you can work on the tile-set(s) when/if you learn how to make graphics more appealing. Programming and Art should follow the "Rome WASN'T built in a day..." phrase. Unless you are really rushing a project(Ex; Game-In-A-Day, or whatever it is that Iain's hosting), then take your time. Now, in real life beyond the invisible walls of BYOND, things are different. BYOND is Hobby Gaming. It should be treated as such unless you get into business, which is a huge mess for the most part. Of course, that's just my opinion. You can call me hypocritical, but I will stand by my words that: BYOND is Hobby Gaming. Do not Rip/Steal. Originality is Win. | |
Masterdan wrote:
Cool story (comment # 22) You go girl! | |
Pick up bad programming practices? You erase bad programming practices over time when you learn more efficient ones.
@Aero Corp: Every bit of the previous source was changed. I don't mean 1-2 lines exist, literally nothing is left except for the say function and the world/. I don't understand, if I erase those 5-7 lines, how is it not an original source code?