ID:93431
 Mar 25 2010, 7:37 pm
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Not Feasible
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Would like to see the IP address and Port listed under the world elements in format=text hub pages.
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Mar 26 2010, 5:23 am
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Lummox JR
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BYOND world addresses are always exposed in the form of byond://BYOND.world.xxxx, by intention.
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What do you mean by this? The BYOND urls are not helpful at all on a system without BYOND.
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For what it's worth, I basically want to make a custom telnet client which could hit a hub address, grab the list of addresses, and provide them to a user to connect to. I'm not sure why you would intentionally provide only some custom URL when the system supports protocols that can't use it.
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It seems to me that if you want to expose a game to telnet that way, the easiest thing would be to include "[world.internet_address]:[world.port]" in world.status after the port is established.
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Who says I have control of the game? What if I want to make a client for Chatters or Artemis?
I really don't see the problem here: why can't you just add the address and port to the hub text? | |
Some hosts may rely on the current behavior of hiding their IP address until someone deliberately connects, which adds a security layer. It could be made possible to change this at the will of the host or author, but changing it for all worlds would not necessarily be a good idea.
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Really, a security layer? This is the Internet, IP addresses are a pretty common thing. Layer 3 connectivity, Lummox!
Are people still worried they'll be uber hax0red if their IP address is listed on a text formatted hub page that no one uses anyway, and that the IP address can be gotten simply by trying to connect to the game? Seems like a load of crap to me. | |
Honestly I'm not sure of the complete reasoning behind BYOND's redirection, but it's there, it's part of the system. What you're basically proposing is that we get rid of it entirely. Whether that's feasible depends a lot on the purpose behind the system. It certainly isn't a decision that should be made willy-nilly.
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I'm not saying get rid of it entirely, I'm saying put forth additional information. The game is obviously contacting the hub from [ip]:[port] so it shouldn't be a big deal to add this information.
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Bypassing the abstraction is basically equivalent to not having it. Maybe that's something we can lose now and maybe it isn't. As an example, if someone banned from BYOND tries to log into a game through the abstract URL the hub will deny them access and refuse to translate it into a true URL. If they still have access to the true URL directly, the abstract URL becomes meaningless.
The point is, this is a feature we use intentionally. The purpose behind it and need for it can be revisited, but without making a determination that the abstraction no longer serves any purpose, it should not be abandoned. The feature you're suggesting would render it moot, but we can't afford to render it moot without understanding the consequences. | |
Would the pager/game deny login at some point as long as client/authenticate is true? My point is simple: anyone can easily (albeit manually) grab the IP and port with a single step, so why not just provide the information additionally to begin with?
I'll use your own arguments for disabling screenshot functionality- you're not hindering anyone malicious, but you are hindering someone looking to write something productive. | |
This might well be hindering someone malicious. I suppose if client.authenticate is off that might be moot, although personally I don't mind keeping up the inconvenience factor for anyone we've banned. I don't think we could make this dependent on client.authenticate without some software changes though because IIRC the hub doesn't have that information.
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How might it be hindering someone if they can get the IP and port by trying to connect via the obfuscated address?
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A BYOND-banned user can't connect via the obfuscated address.
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Okay, that was my misunderstanding then, I thought it would direct them to the IP:port and then disconnect.
Still, how many banned users exist? How many are actively trying to enter games? How many users are these paranoid hosts who don't want their IPs public being protected from? I'm sorry, I just really see no benefit from keeping the IP and port fully public. | |
Whether you see a benefit for the current behavior or not, my point is we can't move forward on anything like this until we have a clear understanding of what the consequences will be. It is not simply a matter of throwing that information into the format directly, which is easy.
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So then let's change this from "Not Feasible" to "Needs Discussion" and actually discuss it. What are the potential consequences?
1) It would be easier to get the IP and port of a hosted world. 2) Getting the IP and port of a hosted world can already be done by anyone using BYOND. Opening this up to the text format hub page means banned users can get the IP and port, but still will not be able to log in to the game. The number of BYOND banned users compared to the number of total BYOND users must be extremely small since the staff only whips out a BYOND ban to the worst of offenders. How do you see it on your side? Why is this not simply a matter of throwing the information into the format? | |
No, just going to leave this here?
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Anybody home?
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