SilkWizard wrote:

Neblim wrote:

If you're going to post something, do what Audiophiles and many other guilds that help the community grow. TEACH others methods and guide them to LEARNING how to become better at art, music, game design, programming, etc.

Nope. There isn't a lack of resources out there to learn DM. There is a wealth of libraries, demos and tutorials, and there is never any shortage of people who help others on the coding problems forum. Not to mention the fact that there is over a decade's worth of questions and answers that you can access with a simple search of that forum.

The problem is that only a small fraction of people are making games. BYOND doesn't need another tutorial. It needs some darn games.

This is utter bullshit. Everybody learns from different perspectives. Say one may learn better from a more visual tutorial? Someone may explain it differently and could provide more clarity and fun facts?

There are a lot of people making games. In fact, almost everyone I talked to is. They either, A) lack the skill and need help learning, B) Give up because they realize they can't do it alone and need someone to compliment their skill.

The fact you have to search the forums for OLD data that may be out of date and try to figure out what that person is babbling about with their problems is not the way to learn. I have learned nothing from this mess. The forum itself doesn't even feel like a forum, but a visual mess.

I find the best way is the manual, but even it lacks some clarity and is of age. Where's the new stuff? Why can't I read more than just the freaking basics from the original author of the code itself? Where's some good game design practices (lummox jr mentioned some before...I found it most useful)?

If only I had a visual reference to know that view() spits out a list of data onto your screen I would have understood it a little quicker, or at least could visualize what the hell it is doing. Hell, maybe if it was explained in another tutorial and I happen to like the author who wrote it, I would have caught on a little easier.

It doesn't have to be YOUR material, you could suggest a link to an article about good game design. OOP can be explained other than from Byond's manual! How/when/where memory is allocated/deallocated in Byond in more detail, that would be fun to know! There is so much more that could be explained.

What I'm saying is, why isn't there enough assistance? I just met someone this morning about having trouble in Photoshop and wanted to apply it to her game. She asked me to mentor for her and I'm taking only a couple of my seconds of my time to link to her a good tutorial instead going to tell her to google it herself. Such rudeness on these blogs is ridiculous. I was so pissed off to hear some idiot tell her to use filters to design that stuff. Wow, what a way to learn how to draw!

It's ignorant unhelpful people like you that make this community a pile of crap. People are here to learn, not get preached to. Quit gloating from your game. At the same time quit saying graphics are original, some of it is edits and recolors. I even emailed you about this and still don't mention like you told me, it's somewhat stolen since it's a parody. Just because yout mention you have a lawyer that claims this to be perfectly legal in a parody, why are you claiming something that is not entirely true? Where's your artist? Nobody here knows how? Exactly my point. It's every developer for themself (for the most part). Seriously, the edits are starting to get on my nerves. You can't claim that to be even close to decent compared to the NES. It's just a downgrade.

I have no desire to help others see their projects to completion, nor should they need my help. If someone can't self-motivate themselves, no amount of help from me is going to fix that.

That kind of attitude makes teams impossible. You're so in to YOUR game you refuse to share others dreams. While this is a right to do so, it seems to cause a downward spiral with the attitude for other Byonders.

Quit babbling about a subject and go do something about it if you really are annoyed. It annoys me too, that's why at least I try and help people.

I like how you focused on the part where I criticized your game for being graphically horrendous and not the actual point.

I'm not going to get involved in this, but I will mention several things I have seen here.


Number one reason for me, and I suspect most people that games never get finished is lack of motivation.
Could be due to a number of reasons, but I find lack of support from the BYOND community does not help me to get motivated.

Also, I have found tons, and tons of learning tools on BYOND.
I know how to use BYOND, and have been doing for like 6-7 years now. But even I have issues sometimes. Usually I can find answers by a simple forum search, or through a demo/library.
If you actually look, you can find solutions to a lot of things, even some strange, highly specific problems.


Also, people are not obligated to help anyone.
I do not do it, nor do I even make any attempt at doing it. I have also refused to help various people in the past.
Maybe if they offered me money I would help them. But it is not worth my time or effort to help other people while I personally gain nothing from it.
(Just so you know, this is how the modern world works. No one works for free anymore. If you want people to work for you, you have to pay them for that work.)

Neblim wrote:

Trolling? Try taking some criticism and quit straying from the point, as if you didn't read my post.

I responded to your post. Now you're ducking my response by making yet another post saying that I didn't respond, even after I asked you to clarify for me what I overlooked.

Have a nice life. Away from this blog.

SilkWizard wrote:

I know a lot of developers are unmotivated these days because BYOND's built-in audience for original games has all but evaporated. But all that means is that it will take a little bit more work to go and find players yourself outside of BYOND.

Yes. Although BYOND has more players now than before, you have a lot more competition for these players' attention. Aside from the plethora of Anime games & rips that feeds most of our community, you've also got to contend with all of the new non-BYOND stuff (games and social networks) that didn't exist ten years ago.

But our audience is miniscule, in the grand scheme of things, and a good game should be able to get plenty of players if it can promote itself in appropriate venues. Marketing is, of course, not a trivial task with all of the competition mentioned above, but a lot of developers don't even try to push their games outside of BYOND. I know this because we've spent quite a bit of time trying to make BYOND accessible to the outside world (through things like quick installation/game launching & EXE distribution) and get virtually no feedback regarding new-user experience. I certainly want to improve on that; so as you embark on the adventure of acquiring new players, please keep us updated as to the kinds of things we can do to make the process easier. This is paramount to the survival of BYOND.

Tom wrote:

I certainly want to improve on that; so as you embark on the adventure of acquiring new players, please keep us updated as to the kinds of things we can do to make the process easier. This is paramount to the survival of BYOND.

Will do. I'll also be sure to pass onto you the thoughts the new players from outside BYOND have on what they thought about the process of installing BYOND/finding the game etc.

I think a lot of BYONDers will be surprised to see that external promotion isn't that hard, and that it works :)

Trajick_Magick wrote:

Secondly, I manned up and took your little challenge. "How hard is it to draw a 32x32 naked man?"

Really, really, f**king hard in fact...

I just spent about an hour of time at work trying to draw said naked man in paint.

I can only describe the result as something that looks like a one legged bunny.

On fire.

The irony is I prefer my characters to have clothes.

I don't think most outsiders have even heard of BYOND, and we've now got some tools where you can get them into games without having to interact with the site/community much. The download itself is only 3MB so that hopefully isn't a huge factor. But we're going to keep trying to improve things. We have something pretty nifty in the works...

So silk I guess you wouldn't be willing to code for me? I got some sweet ideas for a Suikoden game on BYOND, and another for Inindo.

Sorry I'm spending that on a scuba trip, I think I have 25 BYOND Dimes left over from when people gave them to me for hosting DWO, you accept BYOND Dimes right?