Feb 26 2010, 7:44 am
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Zaole
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i don't know about the BYOND Anime guild in specific, but there certainly are people in BYOND making money off copyrighted works (DBZ/bleach/etc)
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The BYOND Anime guild will kick you out if you're openly trying to sell a copyrighted work.
But, anime games that aren't in the guild certainly do things like this. (Falacy's DBZ game in particular) | |
Pmitch wrote:
The Magic Man wrote: So stealing is justified and perfectly acceptable if you do not make money off of it? No, it is not. You're still stealing the work of someone else. | |
So stealing is justified and perfectly acceptable if you do not make money off of it? Well if you would look at BYOND anime more often, no one is making money on there games. They would be removed, and not only that, BYOND anime has little to no rips left. It has been cleaned out, and is now under very strict rules. There are still anime games making money through BYOND (Falacys game for one), but not in the BYOND anime, as you so stated. I'm sure that's what Pmitch was trying to clarify. Although, all games in the BYOND anime are based off manga/anime in general, saying people aren't allowed to make fan based creations is a completely different argument. That is if thats what you are implying. Otherwise, you are quite wrong in saying BYOND anime is filled with thieves, because it is not. BYOND in general is and that is up to the powers that be to get rid of them, not BYOND anime. | |
As I said, the issue of money is a none issue.
If I go out, and mug an old lady, it is perfectly acceptable as long as I make no money off of it? I can steal cars, burgle houses, shoplift and more, so long as I do not make money off of it? No. It is still stealing, and it is still wrong. Also, the issue is not about rips. It is about using someone else's copyrighted work without permission. Stealing is stealing, no matter how much you sugar coat it. What people who make fan games are doing, is exactly the same as what this person is doing. Taking someone else's work, making minor changes, claiming it as your own work. It is just ironic, and hypocritical, that people would criticize someone else for doing this, while they themselves are doing it too. | |
Mugging an old lady and creating a nonprofit fangame to play for fun are two completely different things, moron. And money is exactly the issue, in fact, it's the entire issue.
Should a kid get sued because he acts like comic book heroes with his friends? No. He should get sued if he's pretending to be superman and charging for people to take pictures with him. | |
Magic Man, Nick Simmons is copying the work, and selling it, and claiming it as his own work.
What BYOND Anime does, is make Fan Games, making 0 profit (except for those select few listed below), and I'm sure the BYOND Anime users don't claim ownership of the Anime series their games are based off of. | |
Whoa whoa whoa, your way of course Magic. What this man is doing is way different. First off this guy, is copying art work, picture for picture, plot segments, etc. Then selling it to make money. Not just a few dollars either, comics/manga are a nice chunk of change.
Your trying to say making a Fan based no profit game is the same? Now, yes it is not original for someone to make a DBZ, Naruto or Bleach game, but they made the graphics, and the code. They put there effort and time into it. They also never follow in the plot line, or steal art to sell it off. Plus, the copyright infringement law never really comes into effect till cash is brought into the picture. Unless you steal directly from a copyrighted source(Could be GBA graphics, to actual pics). Although, a lot of BYOND users steal from each other which is different, still wrong but completely different. That would go into the discussion of rips however, and I believe I already covered that in my last post. Your also comparing actual theft to using the idea of a creation my friend. Here is something for you to, Half Life 2, has a patch where the world becomes all DBZ, you look, sound, and have the moves from DBZ. The patch is free, it's fan based. They have not and never will be sued for making or using it. It is the same concept through BYOND. As long as the games do not make money, no lines are crossed. | |
http://www.opcoder.com/projects/chrono/
Not true. A project that was a fan remake of Chrono Trigger in 3D was forced to shut down. It never made any profit, stole nothing from the original game (as in graphical resources and so on) and it was not even finished or released to anyone. Just a few pictures and a website were released. It was still forced to shut down, or the developers would have been sued for a hefty amount of money. If I am not mistaken, there was a similar issue with a Zelda fan game. Copyright infringement is copyright infringement, whether money is involved or not. Anyway, the point I am trying to make is, fundamentally, what fan games are doing is exactly the same thing. You're not stealing art work, but you are stealing characters (and in some cases copying art styles or design). It is stealing, and making illegal use of copyrighted material and intellectual property. It is exactly the same thing (well, not exactly, but you get the idea). | |
TMM, of course the original creators can order a cease and desist if they like. but it's up to THEM to make that call; AFAIK, there's nothing inherently illegal about creating a not-for-profit fan remake/fangame.
let's look back at what you originally said (and what it was in response to): Pmitch wrote: No no, Hes stealing someone elses work, and making money off it without permission. TMM wrote: So stealing is justified and perfectly acceptable if you do not make money off of it? No, it is not. You're still stealing the work of someone else. first off, your response was way, way off from the original point, and a sad attempt at misconstruing Pmitch's words. Pmitch said none of the games in BYOND Anime make money off copyrighted works. you then suddenly act like he said it's ok to steal if no money is made? huge non-sequitur. personally, it sounds to me like you're huttburt because BYOND fan games are more popular than your own games | |
LegendWarriorX wrote:
Really now? I can name off many things. King Yemma - King Enma (they even have the same appearance for god sakes), the whole energy blast scheme - Ki Blasts, Spirit World - The Overworld, etc... And Dragonball ripped off the concept of Son Goku from Son Wukong in Journey to the West. In fact, the entire concept of saiyans and monkeys are a ripoff of the Monkey King. So. This has nothing to do with ripping off Dragonball. Dragonball ripped off these things. These are ripoffs of what Dragonball ripped off of. Not ripoffs of Dragonball itself. Jaredoggy wrote: The fact that Gene Simmons' son can incite such nerd rage from Bleach kiddies makes me like him even more. Maybe you should just not comment. I think that would be best for you. Because you are a tool. | |
Zaole wrote:
TMM, of course the original creators can order a cease and desist if they like. but it's up to THEM to make that call; AFAIK, there's nothing inherently illegal about creating a not-for-profit fan remake/fangame. Copyright infringement is a civil offense. It is illegal no matter how you address it. However, being a civil offense means it is up to the copyright holder to seek out justice, it is not up to the government/police to do this. That is like saying, there is nothing inherently illegal about burgling someones house, as the police cannot get involved unless the owner of the property specifically request they do so. let's look back at what you originally said (and what it was in response to): Actually, I was just replying to his non-sequitur with another non-sequitur. personally, it sounds to me like you're huttburt because BYOND fan games are more popular than your own games Nah man. I am asspained because it is currently impossible to disassociate any BYOND games from crappy anime games. Try and advertise outside of BYOND. Get hundreds of replies saying "lol shitty anime game fuck off fag". I am pretty sure I saw SuperAntx trying to advertise Decadence (or someone was) on 4chan. He got about 5 replies with the above comments, before the thread was deleted. There is an audience outside of BYOND you know, which is unavailable to normal people due to the negative image BYOND anime in general gives (too be fair, there is no good games on BYOND). That is why I am asspained. | |
The Magic Man wrote:
Zaole wrote: Yes, its everyone elses fault that there are no good games, including your own, on byond. Bullshit. Maybe theyre just not interested. If your game was really that good, i dont care what people initially think. If they saw it and it seemed good, then they would try it. Also, assuming this is refering to Generiquest, it doesnt help that your game has the same art thats found in those ripped anime games you hate so much. | |
On topic, Lol @ the guy impersonating Nick Simmons.
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actually, SAx has told me he's received great comments about Decadence in /v/ (although he said the threads often derailed into indie brofisting).
That is like saying, there is nothing inherently illegal about burgling someones house, as the police cannot get involved unless the owner of the property specifically request they do so. no, actually, it's not like that, because this is copyright infringement and that is burgling someone's house. | |
Pmitch wrote:
Yes, its everyone elses fault that there are no good games, including your own, on byond. I know, your point being what? Maybe theyre just not interested. If your game was really that good, i dont care what people initially think. If they saw it and it seemed good, then they would try it. You have obviously never tried advertising any game outside of BYOND have you? Most communities outside of BYOND either laugh at an insult BYOND games, or do not care. A lot of the time this is due the image crappy anime games has given them of BYOND. If you don't believe me, try it. (You'll get some golden results if the game actually is an anime game) Also, assuming this is refering to Generiquest, it doesnt help that your game has the same art thats found in those ripped anime games you hate so much. I've never advertised that game outside of BYOND. I have advertised games outside of BYOND however, with fully custom graphics. And as I said, I have seen several games being advertised outside of BYOND (Decadence, Final Fantasy Legacy and Space Station 13). None of them got a positive response, for no reason other than "he uses BYOND enjoy your shitty dragonballz". If one of the best looking, and most promising games on byond (Decadence) gets responses like that outside of BYOND due to BYOND anime... What the hell is anyone suppose to do, other than get angry and complain about it? You cannot do any better than your best afterall. I'd say people who actually try to use BYOND as a legitimate platform for making games has a more than justified reason to complain about BYOND anime at every chance they get. (Afterall, BYOND anime has effectively taken a huge, steaming, diarrhea crap on any future projects I may work on, regardless of what I attempt to do, other than not use BYOND) | |
Zaole wrote:
actually, SAx has told me he's received great comments about Decadence in /v/ (although he said the threads often derailed into indie brofisting). Actually, I was there, and I know what I saw. I was one of the people insulting the game, just because. I was also one of the only people being reasonable about the game too. I don't know if it was him I was talking to or not, but we both pretty much agreed, what he is trying to do will amount to nothing but a bunch of insults and abuse for him and his game, and he is better off simply not trying. Maybe there was a more successful attempt I did not see. But of the 2 or so attempts I did see, both failed drastically to produce any positive results. | |
You're welcome to use another platform for games, and hang out in another community if this one isn't your thing.
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My point is, make a good game and you wont have a problem. Instead of spending your time complaining and hating fangames.
Your intended goal seems to be an attempt to make byond look good through association with your games.If its too hard, stop making games. I havnt seen decadence advertised anywhere (that i can remember) but i doubt it would get negative results everywhere. | |
Stephen001 wrote:
You're welcome to use another platform for games, and hang out in another community if this one isn't your thing. You're failing to see the point I am trying to make. I want to use BYOND. I also want to hang out at another community. I cannot due to the negative image BYOND has. My point is, make a good game and you wont have a problem. Instead of spending your time complaining and hating fangames. To be fair, I rarely do complain. I am only doing so now due to bad weather potentially knocking my power out (has been all day). If anything, I am probably one of the few people on BYOND capable of seeing a project through from start to finish. Currently have made... 5 Full BYOND games, 1 was never intended for the BYOND community, 2 I have removed the hub of due to lack of updates and a server to make them playable, the other two are avaliable to play. Your intended goal seems to be an attempt to make byond look good through association with your games.If its too hard, stop making games. It should not be as hard as it is. Any game anyone makes with BYOND automatically has a negative image attached to it due to poor quality anime games which are a large majority of games around here. I havnt seen decadence advertised anywhere (that i can remember) but i doubt it would get negative results everywhere. I have, it got a lot of negative responses. Not for being a bad game, but because it was made with BYOND. | |