I don't think it's really Tom's job to manage the website. I think he's moreso the software's developer. The website is more Lummox JR's thing I think.
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Lol I love it when people do that. I remember when people were using it to justify making CSS layouts.
"This is Build Your Own Net Dream, and making CSS layouts is my dream, so leave me the hell alone!" | |
Its my dream to make a game based of a show that is not overused, that is a different game and that is based on my show Knights of the Zodiac. I think that makes me different from those who just rip off another Naruto game.
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TheDarkChakra wrote:
Its my dream to make a game based of a show that is not overused, that is a different game and that is based on my show Knights of the Zodiac. I think that makes me different from those who just rip off another Naruto game. As Forum_account said, it isn't so much that the existence of fan games is bad, it's that all of the fan games are bad. If you make a truly excellent fan game, you would definitely receive less condescending attitudes than you would with a terrible one. My above statement is not justifying your thoughts that your game is original. It most definitely is not. However most people like you, who want to make a fan game, are extremely hard-pressed to stop. Therefore, instead of punching a brick wall until it falls, I challenge you to improve your skill as a programmer and make an excellent fan game. Show the public that something halfway decent can come from a developer who is not well-known and an elitist. | |
Albro1 wrote:
TheDarkChakra wrote: I am not confident I can make one :( | |
TheDarkChakra wrote:
I am not confident I can make one :( Judging by your posts in the forums, you probably can't. Start working on other, smaller projects. Better yourself until you get to the point where you can ask yourself "How should I do X" instead of asking us "How do I do X". The problem with most fan games is that they are full of content, and the game developer just wants it all in the game instead of sorting what should and shouldn't be in. This is especially the case in games where the medium it's based off of is still progressing. The content becomes too much and the developers give up. This is why I am telling you to work on smaller projects first. I started off working on rips, and had to shove those habits off. However, I started working on a fan game and to this day have urges to keep working on it, because I know that I am better and could do it. That's how I know that you most likely won't decide to not make this game. | |
I'm more concerned as to why this topic needs to be dragged out into the open 2-3 times a year for the past 10 years. Seriously folks, stop whining/whinging about the problem, and go make some games! Make them better than what you see here!
If I still had forum moderator power (not sure why I don't have it any more, but I'm not losing sleep over it), this would have been closed by now. Please stop beating the dead horse! It needs a nap. | |
Its especially hard to do this by myself. Usually great games are made in teams. Besides an iconner I have no one. I code, I map, I think up ideas, I fix bugs etc... I only ask here when I'm desperate. I fight certain problems for hours. Then if I can't I ask here. I wish to become a better coder but most guides are for newbies.
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Get a list of general topics that you would like elaboration on and I would gladly write a tutorial or two explaining them.
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Indeed, the game owners should stop themselves and ask.. "What makes a good game?"
Then, they need to look at their game, break it down into parts, and ask each part "Are you making this a good game? Are you doing your job, making it fun and enjoyable for the players?" If no, remove it, if yes, leave it or build from it. Good luck to you TheDarkChakra, it takes a lot to push on and on, following through with something. | |
Darker Legends wrote:
BYOND > Build Your Own Net Dream Nothing against you, but they kinda didn't "build" it - I understand they all want to have "the power" , but if they're all using pretty much the same source - why couldn't they just share a single hub? | |
Games need to be entertaining as well as functional. Menu combat is one thing all Naruto titles on Byond share, and this system needs to be updated. They all have the same theme and the same, sameness... It's now a running gag. Build Your Own doesn't mean do something everyone does. It's just not the thing the community wants.
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Nazo437 wrote:
They all have the same theme and the same, sameness... ...It's just not the thing the community wants. The reason behind your first point is because they're all the same game, literally. They all use the same source code. As for your second point there, obviously it is what they want because there are thousands of people playing them right this very instant. | |
I agree with LordAndrew, but your second point is off by one word; its not the thing the community Needs. They want it, because it's what they're use to, and it gives them stupid little generic things they love like admin, quick stats, afk training, etc.
I believe it is the developers job in cases like this to go against the standard, push to go above and beyond it, and give the players what they actually Need; thus possibly changing what they want. The problem is most of the people running these aren't developers, their young people caught up in the desire to own the game but no knowledge of how to make it. Plus they're usually lazy or don't try hard enough to learn and end up grabbing sources, which brings us to LordAndrews point. It also doesn't help that most people playing these games are young, and don't realize what they really want; they just kind of go where their friends and other familiar things are unless shown something better. | |
People focus too much on what BYOND literally stands for. It's a game development program. It's for making games. People don't make terrible anime games because that's their dream, they make terrible games because they don't know how to make anything better.
Toddab503 wrote: The problem is most of the people running these aren't developers, their young people caught up in the desire to own the game but no knowledge of how to make it. Plus they're usually lazy or don't try hard enough to learn and end up grabbing sources, which brings us to LordAndrews point. What helps the least is the community. It's not that BYOND users don't have what it takes to learn to program and make games properly, this environment just prevents them from ever making those changes. BYOND is full of people who validate these awful game development practices. Someone tries to make a game and they have no idea what they're doing, but because their game has jutsus and their character has spiky hair everyone says "wow, that game looks awesome". The developer has no idea what they're doing but because everyone seems to like their game, they'll never realize that they have no idea what they're doing. They'll just continue doing what they're doing. If people followed two simple rules the community would drastically improve: 1. Only get excited about things you can play. 2. Judge BYOND games like you would any other game. People should only get excited about games they can play and not screenshots or videos because it's so easy to get a game to the point where it can be played. BYOND makes game development so easy that you should be able to have a working prototype of your game made in a few hours. If you can't, you probably need to scale back the game or get some more practice with DM first. People also need to evaluate BYOND games like they would any other game. There are a lot of quirks to BYOND games that people tolerate that they wouldn't tolerate in any other kind of game. Games should be responsive, have good controls, and be easy to figure out. Most games just have a few input() or alert() prompts before dumping you into some huge world with no guidance. | |
Many people don't realise one thing: 13 year old kids who make Naruto games are still kids. Kids don't like challenging games, you can confirm that if you have young relatives: if the game is too hard, they will just play another game. However, they will play games that provide no challenge. While adult will most likely play games like GTA:San Andreas normally, young players will simply download fully completed game, enter tank cheat code and rampage over the city. Young players don't want a game, they want a toy. How this applies to BYOND? Kids who come here aren't game developers, they just want something to play with, and not liking challenge in games means they don't want to work hard on making a game either, so they simply edit the source. And they get what they want: don't you think 10-15 people running around and asking for GM who are completely powerless compared to you is a decent toy? So why should they bother making good games if they can create what they want without much work? The problem lies in immaturity of most "developers".
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BYOND > Build Your Own Net Dream
Build. As in create. Yourself. A thing that belongs to you.
The mass-produced, carbon-copy Narutobleach Z games aren't built by, nor do they belong to the person claiming to be the 'owner.'
There is much emphasis on the 'Own' part - as though any content is acceptable because the person making it is entitled to produce their own personal opinion on what's 'good.'
You can MAKE whatever you like with the BYOND software. But the BYOND WEBSITE is separate, and should remain separate; byond.com is the public-facing aspect of BYOND, and if it's full of low-quality products, low-quality Adverts, low quality technical discussion and low-quality developers, we'll never attract anyone of a higher quality to the platform.
People have pride in their Naruto games, sure. Tom has pride in the platform he's now spent more than a decade working with, and which is his business.