Chris Gayle wrote:

Magic Man.. When I was working on Naruto Alliance, I recall some time ago sharing the same view that you currently do, so I desired to seperate the game from BYOND so that it would not be only visible through this website, we created our own website (Never completed it.) and when I advertised, I told the people it was created with BYOND. People didn't scream "OMG NO MATTER HOW GUD THOS PICX LUK YUR GME MST FAIL." quite the contrary. People looked at what I presented and said, "So BYOND has decent games now."

My conclusion? If you present them with something that looks good they will overlook the tag thats been stapled to BYOND over the years and actually check out what you have to offer.

Maybe your just not showing them something they want to play or something that looks good. Take that however you like.

Quiet the opposite actually.
People did play it, and did like it.
But peoples negative image of BYOND as a whole did stop some people from playing it, and caused a lot more to request I remake the entire game from scratch (also partly for technical reasons).
(Also, someone joined the forums and the game from BYOND because they found it through the pager, they tried advertising their Naruto game and got laughed off of the forums/game)

It is true enough that a good enough game could change peoples opinions about BYOND. But as it currently stands, BYOND as a whole has a negative image and anime games are a contributing factor to that (probably the major factor).

I just don't want games I make with BYOND associated with that image. But at the moment, the only way of doing that is by not making the game with BYOND it seems.

"...Trying to be something."

Usually in that condition it isn't that they are trying to be something. When you first come to BYOND you see all these beautiful games (which most you see are probably rips but you don't know the meaning yet). The first thing you say is, "I want to make a game." But, you don't know how much work and effort you have to have to create said game. You don't know that you need a Devolopment Team (not unless you have experience).

Another problem is that 1 out of every 10 BYOND players is a kid in the age group of 8-10. A lot of people on BYOND aren't mature enough to handle being social on game without proper grammer or no profane language.

But there are also a lot of people who can handle this better than others. So please don't think I'm talking about every BYOND Player.

how is that relevant to his point though, magic man.

i mean first of all we face the fact that that doesn't really matter, kids get in anyways no matter what

second, they easily could have obtained parental permission anyways

The Magic Man wrote:

Troy1121 wrote:

Another problem is that 1 out of every 10 BYOND players is a kid in the age group of 8-10. A lot of people on BYOND aren't mature enough to handle being social on game without proper grammer or no profane language.

If you want to get technical, this should not happen.
It is illegal in most countries in the world for anyone under the age of 13 to use any form of communication over the internet (forum, IM, game) without first providing proven parental permission.
If anyone under the age of 13 is found to be using a website without this proven parental permission, it is the legal obligation of the people who run the website to deny that person access to the website until such a time they can provide proof of parental permission.

It is actually a fairly serious offence to not do this. I forget which website it was but one of those large blogging websites (possibly Myspace or Xanga) were fined millions for not doing this.

Technically, there should be no one on BYOND or any BYOND game that is under 13 unless they have a parent sat with them while they are.

Be realistic here, most people don't actually follow the law. I know for a fact that most people people on BYOND are kids.

inb4 someone who knows law comes in and rips magic man a new one for being dumb



where has jmurph been anyways?

edit: COPPA is not about "there can't be children on the internet without permission", it's about the site the children are on publicly disclosing information provided by the child without permission

also:

"(9) VERIFIABLE PARENTAL CONSENT.�The term "verifiable parental consent" means any reasonable effort (taking into consideration available technology), including a request for authorization for future collection, use, and disclosure described in the notice, to ensure that a parent of a child receives notice of the operator's personal information collection, use, and disclosure practices, and authorizes the collection, use, and disclosure, as applicable, of personal information and the subsequent use of that information before that information is collected from that child."

It has to be PROVEABLE parental permission. If they cannot prove it, it means nothing.

"any reasonable effort" =/= "it has to be PROVEABLE parental permission"

The Magic Man wrote:

Zaole wrote:

how is that relevant to his point though, magic man.

i mean first of all we face the fact that that doesn't really matter, kids get in anyways no matter what

second, they easily could have obtained parental permission anyways

It has to be PROVEABLE parental permission. If they cannot prove it, it means nothing.

And I wasn't addressing any point, I was just stating, there should be no people under the age of 13 on BYOND (since I doubt any of them have a method of proving they have parental permission).
There is no ifs or buts about it, if anyone on BYOND states they are under 13 years old, they should be instantly banned (including from playing games) until they are 13.

Be realistic here, most people don't actually follow the law. I know for a fact that most people people on BYOND are kids.

Laws exist for a reason. If the people running BYOND do not follow the COPPA act to the best of their abilities a single email could get the entire website shutdown until they do.

ZOMG!!! I'm going to so bribe Tom to give me GM on BYOND or else.

The Magic Man wrote:

Zaole wrote:

edit: COPPA is not about "there can't be children on the internet without permission", it's about the site the children are on publicly disclosing information provided by the child without permission

I maybe mixed it up with another law, I know there is COPPA, COPA, CIPA and like 5 others that all are similar.
Also, the COPPA law is about the storage, collection or disclosure of private information about children.
Private information includes name, address, phone number and email address. Oh which BYOND does require an email address to register (it must also store it since there is a limit on how many keys can be registered to an email, or there was).

"(9) VERIFIABLE PARENTAL CONSENT.��‚��€�The term "verifiable parental consent" means any reasonable effort (taking into consideration available technology), including a request for authorization for future collection, use, and disclosure described in the notice, to ensure that a parent of a child receives notice of the operator's personal information collection, use, and disclosure practices, and authorizes the collection, use, and disclosure, as applicable, of personal information and the subsequent use of that information before that information is collected from that child."

It has to be PROVEABLE parental permission. If they cannot prove it, it means nothing.

"any reasonable effort" =/= "it has to be PROVEABLE parental permission"

I don't think a button that says "I have parental permission" is "reasonable effort". (Neopets for example, will not let people under 13 register unless the parents of said children print off, fill out and send them a form)

I probably got the name of the law wrong, but unless it has been changed in the past 1-2 years, I am pretty sure it still exists.

You do know, that in these cases, anyone would just hit "Yes, I'm over 13".

Is there anyway to stop them? I don't know , let's go ask 11 year old Bobbyawesome.

you're missing the point though, fugsnarf. you CAN come to byond and, within a year, learn your first programming language and put out a rough version of your dream game (just because some people don't for a good reason doesn't make his point invalid). then a community forms around it and fosters its growth, and the developer shapes his creation into something good over time.

that's what used to happen, but as he said, that has not happened in a while due to two reasons:

-potential developers are scared away by the rips and immaturity

-good (or potentially good) games receive very, very little attention if it's not anime, so the "foster and grow" phase of development simply doesn't occur anymore. 1 or 2 people saying "hey dude your game is good" doesn't really provide a developer motivation to continue working on it when their game is "(1 server, 0 players)" while nartuo: ultimate fallen revenge revised is "(3 servers, 189 players)"

Zaole wrote:

you're missing the point though, fugsnarf. you CAN come to byond and, within a year, learn your first programming language and put out a rough version of your dream game (just because some people don't for a good reason doesn't make his point invalid). then a community forms around it and fosters its growth, and the developer shapes his creation into something good over time.

I'm aware of that. But to think that someone will come out of no where and in a year create some great new game is a pretty dumb thing to think.

Your keyword is "rough".

SilkWizard wrote:

There hasn't been a single new developer who has joined BYOND in the past year and created a quality original game.

Arguing with Silk, not you.