ID:81108
 
Keywords: fugstuff
I hear plenty of people that have been with BYOND for a long time talk about their good old days. They talk about when the community was primarily made of people that could actually program competently or have a civilized conversation with someone else. They might also mention the lack of anime games and/or rips.

After some time, the anime guild of BYOND became the largest and most active of 5 main genres of guilds. Look around the anime guild and you'll see tons of Naruto, DBZ, Bleach, and other various anime games packed with players. It's pretty obvious that those are the most active games. Most games in the other guilds don't even get past 100 players at one time. Not only that, but you can't even count the amount of ripped anime games on BYOND.

For me personally, I'm not in any way associated with the anime guild. Look at my guilds that I'm in and the games in my favorites. You'll find no anime games. Regardless of this fact, I believe that we as a community are handling this "issue" of anime games and rips in a completely wrong way.

The first thing that bothers me is what happens when someone makes a post about an anime game or rip. The first thing I usually see is plenty of nays. The post is instantly nayed by tons of people just because it talks about an anime game or rip. Something is wrong here. Are we judging on the content of the post or the interests of the poster?

Anime is a genre of game here. Most people wouldn't slander a man's name just because he likes country and the other person liked rock. Why would you try to put down the person that's actually helping BYOND? New games breed new players. New players breed more money for BYOND. I often wonder where BYOND would be without the money coming from the anime guild.

I know what you might be saying. "They're all a bunch of stupid morons that can't spell to save their life! All they care about is Naruto. We need to get this trash out of BYOND!" What kind of person are you to call another person or that person's interests trash? The fact is that that kid is indeed a person. If you can get a little bit past the poor spelling you can see a human being and interact with him. It works everytime.

On the topic of rips. Sources get leaked and people build off of those sources. All that these people are doing is trying to be something. You ask most of them and they will say that they just want a game to call their own. They want to be something on BYOND. What sickens me is that we alienate these people. How are they supposed to get anywhere else if we treat them the way we treat them by putting them down and telling them to get out of here? Maybe if the "gurus" of BYOND were actually a little more welcoming, understanding, and acted a little more like teachers, these people could get somewhere. We need to actively communicate with these people in a civilized way. Believe me, they can be civilized.

The main point that I wish to get across is that we need to talk more with these people and not alienate them. When we treat them like scum, it won't change anything. If you have a problem with your friend, you don't just continuously yell at him and verbally beat him down every time you see him. You will most likely eventually talk the matter out and come up with a solution. One of you will take up the stance of a leader, an unbiased leader. So it should be when dealing with the anime side and rips of BYOND. It's time to stop being superior and start going to their level. You don't have to talk like them or share their interests. We are a community. It's time to start acting like one.


You've just read my stance on this. Please leave your own comment on the matter.
I agree.

Yea++
I R Smart.

Yea, really I agree. And the thing is, as soon as someone makes a rip, they are deemed scum. Someone could creat a DBZ rip, then turn around and make a completely original RPG with captivating graphics, but yet because they have a rip, it wouldn't matter.

I just think, rip or not, we should give every game a chance.
Fat girl gets made fun of and alienated

Fat girl develops anorexia and becomes skinny

(previously fat)Skinny girl dates millionaire. Skinny girl never has to work a day in her life.

TL;DR: nay.
IcewarriorX wrote:
Fat girl gets made fun of and alienated

Fat girl develops anorexia and becomes skinny

(previously fat)Skinny girl dates millionaire. Skinny girl never has to work a day in her life.

Skinny girl laughes at the people who made fun of her.
Magicbeast20 wrote:
IcewarriorX wrote:
Fat girl gets made fun of and alienated

Fat girl develops anorexia and becomes skinny

(previously fat)Skinny girl dates millionaire. Skinny girl never has to work a day in her life.

Skinny girl laughes at the people who made fun of her.

People who made fun of said skinny girl, are now infact fat.
IcewarriorX wrote:
Magicbeast20 wrote:
IcewarriorX wrote:
Fat girl gets made fun of and alienated

Fat girl develops anorexia and becomes skinny

(previously fat)Skinny girl dates millionaire. Skinny girl never has to work a day in her life.

Skinny girl laughes at the people who made fun of her.

People who made fun of said skinny girl, are now infact fat.

And work at Wall-Mart and McDonalds.

Magicbeast20 wrote:
IcewarriorX wrote:
Magicbeast20 wrote:
IcewarriorX wrote:
Fat girl gets made fun of and alienated

Fat girl develops anorexia and becomes skinny

(previously fat)Skinny girl dates millionaire. Skinny girl never has to work a day in her life.

Skinny girl laughes at the people who made fun of her.

People who made fun of said skinny girl, are now infact fat.

And work at Wall-Mart and McDonalds.

(previously fat) Skinny girl now owns wal-mart that (previously skinny) fat girls work at.
IcewarriorX wrote:
Magicbeast20 wrote:
IcewarriorX wrote:
Magicbeast20 wrote:
IcewarriorX wrote:
Fat girl gets made fun of and alienated

Fat girl develops anorexia and becomes skinny

(previously fat)Skinny girl dates millionaire. Skinny girl never has to work a day in her life.

Skinny girl laughes at the people who made fun of her.

People who made fun of said skinny girl, are now infact fat.

And work at Wall-Mart and McDonalds.

(previously fat) Skinny girl now owns wal-mart that (previously skinny) fat girls work at.


People don't own Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart owns people.
You pose a decent argument, IcewarriorX, but I have to disagree with you.

It's easy for that girl to become anorexic. Learning to program is completely different than that. We're also talking about an entire section of BYOND here. Nothing's going to ever change if we leave it as it is. I think we can all agree that what we are doing now by treating those people as scum has failed to work. Their numbers are too great. And as I said before, we are a community afterall.
Most people wouldn't slander a man's name just because he likes country and the other person liked rock.

wat

Why would you try to put down the person that's actually helping BYOND?

i wasn't aware that putting out a ripped game that makes BYOND look bad and scares away potential developers is something that helps BYOND

or are you attempting the "byond needs the money from ripz lulz" argument?

They want to be something on BYOND. What sickens me is that we alienate these people. How are they supposed to get anywhere else if we treat them the way we treat them by putting them down and telling them to get out of here? Maybe if the "gurus" of BYOND were actually a little more welcoming, understanding, and acted a little more like teachers, these people could get somewhere.

http://www.byond.com/developer/forum/?query=author%3Agarthor

ten thousand and seven hundred posts in code problems by Garthor, a veritable "guru" of BYOND.

here's what i want you to do: look at Garthor's posts, and note how patient, understanding, and helpful he is. then look at the OP's responses. note how they ignore his advice, attempt to copy-paste his code, or in general disregard his genuinely nice attempts at helping and teaching them and instead bash him for not simply giving them "the code".

if an analogy better suits you: these camels are surrounded by bountiful pools of pure water, and are being gently led towards the water and asked to drink. the camels stubbornly refuse to drink and attack anyone who tries to get them to drink-- and so the people then walk away and ignore the camels, occasionally making angry gestures or scowling at the camels

what you're upset at is when the people scowl at the camels, but that's not the root of the problem. if the camels had drunk from the water or at least not responded so brashly when asked to drink, the scoweling would never have occurred.
Fugsnarf wrote:
You pose a decent argument, IcewarriorX, but I have to disagree with you.

It's easy for that girl to become anorexic. Learning to program is completely different than that. We're also talking about an entire section of BYOND here. Nothing's going to ever change if we leave it as it is. I think we can all agree that what we are doing now by treating those people as scum has failed to work. Their numbers are too great. And as I said before, we are a community afterall.

I could imagine what the 'gurus' are saying right now... "Oh wah, it's just another bunch of losers."

@Zaole:

I'm not necessarily talking about helping in the developer forums and such. I'm perfectly aware that there are plenty of helpful "gurus" there that are helping people with their programming problems. What I'm talking about is how we treat anime lovers and rippers. The rippers are just trying to do things on their own and take the easy way out. Is that right? Not necessarily. You will find that a lot of the time they haven't been nudged towards the water at all. Are there just plain idiots out here? Of course.
I think that your optimism is clouding your judgement. The harsh reality is that the Anime community on BYOND has yet to put out a high quality game that would be able to stand alone without its anime tie-in. 99% of the players and game creators in the Anime community are little kids, be it in terms of actual age or just maturity level. These types of people do not posses the faculties or motivation to develop their own game, so instead they download pre-existing source code and make slight modifications to it and call it their own.

The Anime community has become the lifeblood of BYOND. Most of the quality community members/developers from the "good old days" that you speak of have left, likely because they don't see any point in sticking around. Worse, any serious developer who visits BYOND probably takes one look at the state of things and decides to GTFO quickly, never to return. There hasn't been a single new developer who has joined BYOND in the past year and created a quality original game.

There are good reasons as to why the Anime community is looked down on. Show me one recent member post by a member of the anime community that isn't completely retarded and I'll show you a thousand that are.

The anime guild should be abolished, and all of the games should be hidden in the unpublished section of the hub.
SilkWizard wrote:
The Anime community has become the lifeblood of BYOND. Most of the quality community members/developers from the "good old days" that you speak of have left, likely because they don't see any point in sticking around. Worse, any serious developer who visits BYOND probably takes one look at the state of things and decides to GTFO quickly, never to return. There hasn't been a single new developer who has joined BYOND in the past year and created a quality original game.

Efencea by Vermolius, or Efencea by Efencea

Both made in 2009, both original, both have great quality.
Ganing wrote:
Efencea by Vermolius, or Efencea by Efencea

Both made in 2009, both original, both have great quality.

When did that developer come to BYOND? Also, if the only example that someone can point to is a game that (as far as I know) is never hosted and is not downloadable, then I rest my case.
I will say that it took me more than 2 years to be able to program what I can now. I'm not that great either. You shouldn't expect anyone who joined in the past year to do otherwise.
SilkWizard wrote:
Ganing wrote:
Efencea by Vermolius, or Efencea by Efencea

Both made in 2009, both original, both have great quality.

When did that developer come to BYOND? Also, if the only example that someone can point to is a game that (as far as I know) is never hosted and is not downloadable, then I rest my case.

It is downloadable, and though it's not hosted much, it is also 1 player. So =P

Also Vermolius came to BYOND in 2001, and to me, he is by far one of the greatest programmers on BYOND.

I agree with treating the Anime people with more respect, but why tolerate Rippers? They rip off other people's work for the chance to basically do whatever they want in their own game. I used to help people with Coding issues back before I kind of went inactive on Byond, and most of the Anime developers either were working on a rip, wanted me to do all the work for them on their game, or disappeared off the face of Byond soon after. While I have nothing but respect for the few anime developers pushing out games with their own code/art, they are by far the minority.
Techgamer wrote:
I agree with treating the Anime people with more respect, but why tolerate Rippers? They rip off other people's work for the chance to basically do whatever they want in their own game. I used to help people with Coding issues back before I kind of went inactive on Byond, and most of the Anime developers either were working on a rip, wanted me to do all the work for them on their game, or disappeared off the face of Byond soon after. While I have nothing but respect for the few anime developers pushing out games with their own code/art, they are by far the minority.

Really though, rippers wouldn't rip, if the owners of the ripped sources weren't ignorant.
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