I'm glad these people don't visit BYOND. Especially Elk.
*See Jeff8500's reply.
Chris-g1 wrote:
Why does this not sound like a believable story. Go and ask any community outide of BYOND tha is remotely interested in programming. Ask them what they think of BYOND. $100 says everything they say is negative. Would post links to the poll I made, but I can't. Was made on 4chans /v/, if you didn't know, topics on 4chan are deleted very quickly, and most last less than an hour (but rarely some may last 2-3 hours). (Hence the reason it got 600+ replies over the period of maybe 8 or so topics spanned over a week) But still, the same applies. If you don't believe me, go to any community and ask their opinion on BYOND. If 4chan was not down right now I'd go to /v/ and ask their opinion of it and then post a link here. | |
DYS:
So the question is what are you going to do about it (besides give up)? Although I agree with Z's assessment of BYOND, unlike him, I think it's sad. BYOND could be more but it currently isn't. JP's (and Zaole's and Danny's) status quo argument seems to be pretty prevalent. Which is sad. Evidence would seem to show that he's right, unfortunately. The presentation of visual information (and even aesthetic) is as much design as gameplay is. Jeff: I have no idea what Elk does or doesn't do. I do know that BYOND could do without people that spam the scoreboards of game's with I-think-I'm-funny scores. Chris: I think ESF was only commenting on how the-opposite-of-straightforward it is to add larger than 32x32 graphics into a game. The point is BYOND has a bad word of mouth with both skilled artists and serious programmers. If your fine with that: fine. I'm not. | |
The man has spoken.
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TheMonkeyDidIt wrote:
The point is BYOND has a bad word of mouth with both skilled artists and serious programmers. If your fine with that: fine. I'm not. Agreed! | |
TheMonkeyDidIt wrote:
The point is BYOND has a bad word of mouth with both skilled artists and serious programmers. If your fine with that: fine. I'm not. I agree completely. Byond's reputation for artwork is no better that it's reputation for programmers. However DYS seems to have only posted about how the artwork of game is giving us a poor image. Most Byonder's know who is skilled in each aspect, however, most visitors overlook those people. I know this for a fact, because several people that I have directed to byond have complained about the immaturity. However they seem to enjoy games such as Tomb Explorer and the upcoming Fighters of Legend. | |
TMDI:
The only solution to it would be to be overly oppressive to the members of this site, which wouldn't work as far as I can tell. If it isn't the ripped art or disgruntled programmers that keep people it surely is the flame wars that ignite at the drop of a pin. Though nothing can really be achieved, as of yet anyways, sheding some light on it would [hopefully] change the way to some people (though that'd most likely never happen). Sheesh even as I post people are already trying to ignite a flame war in this very post, it's ridiculous. | |
Well. Elk is definitely correct. This community taking peoples' work and using them as if they made it is what's scaring good artists away from the community. You guys may say you focus more on gameplay; that's great and all, but the quality of pixel art in these games are horrible and the gameplay isn't really top notch either. Giving a person negative feedback just because he's gay just shows how much this place needs an attitude adjustment.
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Mista Dougie wrote:
the quality of pixel art in these games are horrible and the gameplay isn't really top notch either. Byond's age group tends to be quite low, and like most children, they would rather take something than put effort into creating it themselves. That right there is quite an offput, however, out of the hundreds (thousands?) of games we have on Byond, I play a mere few of them because I simply ignore games I don't like and show interest in the ones I do. I completely agree that Byond repels pixel artists due to the amound of theft that goes on, and although I like to think more on the positive side of things, I just feel that there isn't much that we can do to prevent this without Byond losing a lot of income. | |
TheMonkeyDidIt wrote:
Jeff: I have no idea what Elk does or doesn't do. I do know that BYOND could do without people that spam the scoreboards of game's with I-think-I'm-funny scores. It would be cool if he ever released free resources or something, but other than that, I sure as hell wouldn't want to work with him! Also, I only added one or two of those scores, and I think my contributions counteract that in the end. | |
Here's what I still don't get: why would they be so upset if their artwork is stolen?
- it's a possibility which every pixel artist will always have to face no matter where you go or what you do - it's very easy to prove that you're the original creator - when others take your work and try to put it into their own game, it's not feasible to steal ALL of your artwork (for several reasons), so it looks poor and mismatched-- they gain nothing from stealing your artwork - if anything, it's flattery that they like your artwork so much that they'd like to use it themselves (regardless of their immature methods) I don't see how they get negatively impacted by such "theft" other than a sore butt. by the way, Tayoko's a wonderful artist and has created art inside of BYOND. I don't see his icons sprouting up in Naruto games or poor quality mockups of the game it exists in. reasons being? is it just maybe possible that the whole "THEY STEAL MY ARTWORK" accusations are way blown out of proportion, and it doesn't happen nearly as often as suggested? | |
Zaole wrote:
Here's what I still don't get: why would they be so upset if their artwork is stolen? Because we dont like other people claiming our stuff. its as simple as that. We dont spend hours drawing something for some kid to come and steal it, spread it and say he did it. You dont have to get it, but dont act like its no big deal to have your work stolen. And yeah, people certainly DO steal peoples entire portfolios if they can. What do you think they use the rsc extractors for? What i dont get is, why is it you think we should just say nothing,or not care, or not be upset when this kind of thing happens, just because its a possibility? Theres plenty of other reasons for why artists dont like their art being stolen. If you cant understand any of that, just be happy that you dont have to worry about people stealing and claiming your code as easily as they can steal our art. | |
Pmitch wrote:
Because we dont like other people claiming our stuff. its as simple as that. We dont spend hours drawing something for some kid to come and steal it, spread it and say he did it. I'd release all my code to the public if I wasn't worried about the awful habits it'd cause. At any rate, you can kick and scream and say "you just don't understand!" like a teenager all you want, but it doesn't change the logistics of it: no matter what site you're on, if you create and display pixel work, it can be stolen. I'm not saying you can't be upset and call the thief a douche, but don't act surprised or condemn an entire community because of it. | |
You bring up some good points Zaole and I understand where you're coming from. We shouldn't just kick and scream while shouting "you just don't understand!", we should be giving reasons why right?
See as an artist you spend hours, maybe days if it's a big piece, on something you're working on. This entire process is done by pixel pushing, pixel by pixel having the artist being as creative as possible with what he/she is attempting to do. So you finish hours later and post it up on a site, let's say Pixel Joint, and of course there are people praising it or not but giving criticism none the less. All to help you, the artist improve in your own abilities. [You're posting it in order to get feedback so that you yourself can improve.] But here comes someone out of nowhere, no artistic ability and simply wishes to become more "popular" in there community. They take your art and start to put it in there game/tell others they made it. Something they clicked "save image as" in under 10 seconds and claimed it was theres when you've spent hours upon hours completing it. As an artist we all know the dangers of posting our work online and it being taken, that's why we stick to communities such as Pixel Joint and a few well known others among us. Not even venturing outside of those forums unless a company posts a request for an artist. But the people that come on our only places of solitude and take our work, such disrespect is shown. Because no one wants there work stolen or used without there permission. I'm not sure how a programmer would feel but I'd think they would have pretty much the same feelings or so. Unless it was a free resource of course. ---------- And I'm not condemning the whole community because of it, not in anyway because there are a handful of good people on this site that I've personally. But as majority rules in favor of the negativity that is shown to other communities whether it be Pixel Joint or wherever Magic Man is going to talk about BYOND. [If it's not the ripped pixel art or disgruntled programmers, it's definitely the maturity and actions most of the members of this site do] and that's what condemns this entire community | |
I've always wondered, in every other community, stealing other people's work is pretty much bannable. Why isn't that the case here? Is it really all about money?
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Aixelsyd wrote:
I've always wondered, in every other community, stealing other people's work is pretty much bannable. Why isn't that the case here? Is it really all about money? In the case of BYOND Anime, then yes its all about the money. BYOND Art forums do ban people for stealing art then claiming it for there own. | |
Aixelsyd wrote:
I've always wondered, in every other community, stealing other people's work is pretty much bannable. Why isn't that the case here? Is it really all about money? If it was ban-able here, then a good portion of BYOND would be lost. From there, Lummox would have to quit as full time programmer because BYOND wouldn't be able to generate enough money to pay him. | |
DYS wrote:
that's why we stick to communities such as Pixel Joint and a few well known others among us. Granted, artists at PixelJoint get a lot more C&C than a lot of places will give, however it is one of the biggest websites used to steal individual (i.e. not sprite sheets) pieces of art. Just because you don't know about it, doesn't mean that people aren't using your artwork, Byond just seems to have their 'rippers' publicised more. | |
I'm pretty sure the site having a bad image due to ripping is just as regressive (or maybe a bit less) to BYOND as not working on the software/website. Oh well, it's Tom and the BYOND staff's choice.
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Links?