I threw together an example of what I meant before:
Example Hub Page.html
It's just a really basic setup, and the "See other servers" link should be made more obvious (it doesn't work in my example page because I had to use <base> to set up the rest of the layout. It should link to the anchor at the top of the lower games list). The "Play Live" button would also be changed to link to the bottom of the page. I feel like there should be some kind of qualifier next to the server listed above the description (something like "Random Live Server:").
I think a setup similar to that would work best for most hubs. It would keep a join link within reach of players opening the page just to play--they wouldn't need to scroll or click anything to get to it--while still giving the description a prime place in the layout.
(I never realized the hub page html was so massive! You guys should trim out some of that blank space, save some bandwidth! :P)
DarkCampainger wrote:
I threw together an example of what I meant before: That's exactly what I was thinking. | |
DarkCampainger wrote:
I threw together an example of what I meant before: Awesome; a massive improvement over the current setup. Perhaps I'll throw something together as well. | |
SilkWizard wrote:
If you visit any other website that offers games for download, the game description is always right there along with the download/join link. If I'm browsing for games on iTunes and I click on a title, it displays all of the pertinent information on a single page for ease of viewing. The same thing goes for Steam, Impulse, GoG and any other game browser out there. Except you are talking about downloadable items. If a game is download-only, BYOND works the same way (taking the user to the overview tab with the Download link & description). If a game is meant for online play, it currently favors the live tab, since that's what most users are interested in. Where I agree with you is that first-time visitors really should be presented with the description info upfront. The suggestion I made previously would resolve this, but I'm willing to consider other ideas. I always am! A few comments: * It doesn't "seem" like we're getting more players; we are getting more players. That part is a fact. It may not be directly related to this hub change, but it does line up. * I think this decision does come down to matter of taste. If you have a page with lots of info boxes, is it easier for the user to reach them via tabs (clicking) or scrolling? There are proponents of both methods (you can see it just on this thread or in our previous discussions-- keep in mind that the opposition is always more vocal). I sincerely prefer this hub over the old one, but I HATE huge pages that require lots of scrolling; that's a matter of taste. * It's another issue if people are unable to find important elements (like the description) in our tab system. That means that the tabs are not obvious enough, or need to always reside above the fold. That's easily improved. Frankly, I think that combining that with the "people who haven't downloaded or played the game always see the overview first" rule is enough to make this work well, but I know it won't appease everyone. * DarkCampainger's layout is nice, but it does present some issues. For one, it really biases users towards the selected listing, which I'm sure hosts of multi-server games won't like. We could always make an exception for games that only have a single-server. I'll consider it. The other issue is that we need to have the ad box in the hub listing because it is our biggest ad revenue stream. We'd have to see how it would perform in this location (often below the fold). Of course we could anchor to it but I suspect that would defeat the purpose. | |
Tom wrote:
* It doesn't "seem" like we're getting more players; we are getting more players. That part is a fact. It may not be directly related to this hub change, but it does line up. You're the only one who can see the numbers, but I just don't buy that this is attributable to the hub redesign. The changes to hub pages would not have magically drawn non-BYONDers in. A simple correlation is not sufficient to make this type of conclusion. Ex: Global Warming can be directly correlated with the price of postage stamps. Tom wrote: * I think this decision does come down to matter of taste. ...yet in your first comment you admitted that you're not a great designer. Case in point, you also prefer "rounded corners" in your CSS... The hub pages are the only pages on the BYOND site that adhere to the tabbed interface design logic. The rest of the site is based upon scrolling. This clash has nothing to do with taste; it's counter-intuitive design. Whether or not the tab buttons are hard to identify is a separate issue. The answer is yes, but the root of this problem is the fact that hub pages now operate on a different set of design principles than the rest of the site. Tom wrote: For one, it really biases users towards the selected listing, which I'm sure hosts of multi-server games won't like. DarkCampainger's mockup isn't the only solution; I don't see why all of the live games couldn't just live above the description. You don't think that the game description is all that valuable. You don't like scrolling. If the descriptions that you're not going to read anyway sit below the games live, then you'll have no need to scroll. | |
nice fantasy world silk even if it was back to the classic view people will still continue to ask wheres the hosting files at -_- people dont read anything at all they want it handed to them which is why most games never get off the ground because people are lazy especially BYOND gamers
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KISS was left behind a long time ago with the site layout. The hub pages are bad enough normally, but minimize the BYOND sidebar and the hub pages look really crappy.
If anything, the layout is bad as far as catching the interest of new users. Information on any of the games is hidden in a tooltip in the icon for the game. Even then you click the link for the game and you get sent to the games live page, which contains ZERO information about the game. Nevermind the fact that the page is confusing as hell since there are ads smacked right in the middle of everything that makes the page even less intuitive than it was before (If you have adblock enabled its worth a look with it disabled, its pretty bad placement of an ad). | |
I will say this. Ever since the new change in the hub designs I think I have only looked at one or maybe two overview pages. In the old version I was forced to look at it. If something caught my eye I would go "hmmm" and take a look. There's really no point these days unless I know nothing about the game to begin with (either way the game itself should explain everything in my opinion). I usually just skip right over it. That is discouraging news to me when I realize this because I realize that my overview page is as good as useless if everyone does what I do when visiting a game.
PS It's even more useless to me now since the forum link, etc has been moved to the top. | |
Just FYI, now the overview page is the default link, and we've also made some suggested layout changes (you may need to refresh the page to see them). This should hopefully address the concerns about people missing out on the description & what-not. They pretty much have to go through that to get to the game.
As an aside, this is how it worked in our first iteration of this stuff. Then we switched to use the live page as the default because users complained that it took too many clicks to get into games. This was the case in the old anchor-setup and the new tab-setup.. from the user's POV it's basically the same because you have to click the "Play Now" button to get there. Just goes to show you can't make everyone happy. | |
That was fast! Everything looks a lot cleaner, and much easier to find.
I hope that in the future you guys consider some other design options to break away from the tabbed setup; but this is a big improvement. Thanks for addressing this :) | |
I agree.
But possibly to continue this I have another request. Would there be a way that you guys could make which tab you want to automatically start at editable? For instance, the default start spot upon loading the page could be the spot showing the servers and players, but if I want I could edit it to start at the overview page. I would personally like that alot. | |
That is what they had in the first place. I don't understand why they changed it into five tabs either. If they should separate anything, then put the reviews/discussion page in one other tab, and leave it at that. I do not see a point in the discussion tab though. The game should have a forum for that. It just takes up more space and most games have people spamming crap on it, making the community look like complete morons.
For example, go to the Anime section and read the discussion sections of each game, all you see is "lol noob its not a rip u just suck" and stupid crap like that. I'd rather it be difficult for newcomers to find out how stupid this community is by accessing their forums.