Heh, it's not often I initiate religous talk, but I thought of something I'd like someone to try to clear up for me...
As the story goes, Jesus was sent to Earth to die for our sins...
As another related story goes, God has given us free will... We make our own choices, and he has barred Himself from interfering with those choices...
So, how could God have formed a plan to have Jesus killed, if he couldn't be sure that we'd kill Jesus? If everything is our choice, couldn't the choice have been made to not kill Jesus, thus ruining the sacrifice?
I mean, what if we had let Jesus live until he died a natural death at a ripe old age... Would that have nullified the entire plan? Would we never have been saved, simply because we exercised our free will and did not kill the man?
And if God knew Jesus would be killed, doesn't that imply that He's got a bit more pull than His book lets on?
ID:6562
 Dec 15 2005, 4:44 am
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However, it says that he does not manipulate us... A clear selling point from Christianity is that God has gone to a hands-off approach... We call the shots in our lives, and he merely observes, hoping that we'll take the correct path...
Yes, they also claim that He is all-knowing... However, if he uses that knowledge to set us up, isn't that dminishing free will? You can make all the decisions you want, but if the big guy already knows what they will be, and uses you through that knowledge, then He is essentially still calling the shots... You can't say "You're free to do what you choose, but since I already know what you will choose, I'll just set everything up so you'll still fall into my plan..." | |
What do you want me to say? I have the answers? Would you like me to make up some more shit that goes with this fact? From what I understand giving someone guidence but letting them choose where to take a path is up to them.
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"However, it says that he does not manipulate us... A clear selling point from Christianity is that God has gone to a hands-off approach... We call the shots in our lives, and he merely observes, hoping that we'll take the correct path..."
I havn't read the bible... but didn't he flood the planet at one point though? I would definately call that the hands on approach! | |
I believe it's possible, that if jesus was who he was and was sent for that reason, then God could have assumed we would.
I just can't believe that God is as omnipotent as people make him out to be... If we were to create a super video game (program, system, whatever) with AI that could learn, grow, etc., they may be wondering the same things amungst themselves, and we, as their God, wouldn't be all-powerful... Hell, they'd probably be modeled completely after us. | |
Angels don't have free will. They WANT to sin, but God keeps an iron grip on their minds and forces them to do good.
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I havn't read the bible... but didn't he flood the planet at one point though? All major (and minor) religions, and folktales tell of a flood at one point. You could argue they're all interpretations of the same event, or that they are different versions of just one original story. Since some of the religions with the stories are pretty ancient, I'm inclined to think that maybe after the ice age ended and the world warmed, the ice caps melted causing a rising sea level that could be seen as a diety-introduced flood (then again I'm not really up to scratch on my ancient geography). The more recent religions of only about, say, 2000 years probably have regurgitated the same story. This is all my guessing, so if anyone actually knows anything about that subject... | |
Elation, your silly, everyone knows Angels have nothing to do with god or religion and they are just another being that lives in an alternative dimension of ours, that enjoys to help people from time to time.
I read a theory that Angels were before the time of god, lol. | |
if i send a black panther into a KKK meeting, i have a pretty good idea that a certain black panther isn't going to be walking out of that meeting. i can't control what any of those people do, but based on the way that they are acting (and who has the majority of the power) you can see what's probably going to happen.
Jesus was a man, so he had free will too. what if he didn't do any of the things he did? would have made the bible a bit less interesting ;-) | |
Whoa whoa whoa. If we're not all-knowing, who are we to know if god is?
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Because he said so. Duh.
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Simply put, I don't believe that Jesus was created to simply die for our sins. His purpose was one of enlightenment and to save humanity. God does not control people, but god did contact quite a few he believed would follow his plan. In the end however Jesus died for our sins as it seemed that it would happen, but I don't believe that was the original plan.
I'm not religious but I do believe that's how it worked out. Organized religion is bull, it's just a bunch of rewritten and misinterpreted stories about something we will never understand or visually know. | |
Wow... just Wow man...
But I have another one for you to wrap your mind around. Caine, acording to vampire legend was the first Vampire, Cursed by God for killing his brother in cold-blood To where the fruits of the earth and the waters and streams would no-longer sustain his form... Now, on to Jesus. Eat of my flesh and Drink of my blood. Doesn't that sound the least bit Vampyric to you? Or at the tiniest bit Cannablistic? [edit] Just remembered another one... Jesus was the "Prince of Peace" right? so..ummm... thats why he cut a switch and beat the holy everlovin shit out of the money changers in the temple with it? [/edit] #-------------------------- <The hell with Polaruis Can't take good critizism, I think I scared him. "You are no longer allowed to make comments on this blog"> | |
What your saying is just going around this fact. If he did infact create human's, then he can infact manipulate us.