Hm. As far as deleting goes, wouldn't it be possible to simply warn the user with something along the lines of "Your X post has Y problem, please edit or remove your post within Z amount of time or your post will be deleted."
This could prove a little difficult for the moderators at times, though there are naturally some posts where such may not be necessary such as "asfga" type deals. The usual removal and reason why alert would be fine there.
This whole idea may not even be necessary once post splitting is in, and its even less likely to be useful if other changes are made like mod logs being public, or more guidelines etc; but it might be a good and quick alternative for the time being. Pretty sure everything needed for it is already available.
This is not about him or I it's about the general user be they new or old.
I have not singled out yourself when I mentioned rude don't take it to heart so much, it's not the initial removal excuse that is rude it is when you try dispute it via the pager. I think the problem is on both sides mods need the tools to do the work properly to keep us in check but we also need some sort of system to remind or prevent us from doing what is not right... | |
Can we have a transcripted example of this rudeness? You're welcome to include names, as this will help a sense of culpability. Your site updates feed (thingy) should have pages received in it.
I'm very much struggling to get to grips with who I should be speaking to about these issues, as what I should be discussing with them. If I don't know that, I'm very much left with "Be nice, guys!" which is about as useful when said to a group of moderators as it is to a group of users. My assumption is the moderators don't feel they are being anything other than nice by intention. If they were being insulting by intention, what kind of moderators are they? Without specific examples, this topic rather boils down to a few people saying "I've been moderated for stuff, and I don't like the way it was done" in a very general sense for the past couple of pages. Which of course you wouldn't particularly, as people usually don't like being told they did something wrong or acted out of turn, it's what makes being a moderator a somewhat thankless job. The tools and changes to guidelines for users sit generally in Tom's court, and my expectation is they will prove to be backburner issues for BYOND, as he's happy with most of the moderation, and doesn't consider any issues we do have moderation to be especially critical going forward. I don't anticipate there's much from a user's perspective that would speed this up, either, given his focus will very reasonably and naturally be on the software, which is undergoing some very exciting developments that will really add value to the platform. From our perspective as moderators, there's similarly not a lot I can do for you without specific cases to discuss, and through those specific cases I'll be able to work out what bad trend is going on our side (if any) in logic that needs work. So that's really what I need from you to progress, otherwise this topic is unfortunately, stuck in a rut. | |
I am rather stuck then. Perhaps you could tell me who you were speaking to and what it was about, and to the best of your memory, what was said?
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I would rather provide concrete evidence than go off my own words in all fairness.
So for the rudeness in the pager for myself I can't provide you with anything thus far which is fair as I don't want to call someone out and be 100% incorrect. So we can forget that unless someone else can step up and provide something. Ow would e the time as a solution is being somewhat offered. On a side note I would like to commend Calus Corps for his clear explanations his clear understanding and his very informative reasons. That and Audero but I am unsure if he is a moderator I assume he is. | |
He is, yup.
I'll await some further specifics then, as we've had a couple of people remark on these concerns in general in this topic, so you'd expect maybe they are still subscribed and may contribute on this. | |
@Lugia319;
I'm not saying; So now God needs to hold everyone's hand and smite people with ruthless efficiency at even the slightest thing (provoked or not).At all. We're not all-knowing, infallible god-entities. We're moderators, and we basically scrabble around in frantic bursts of activity whenever something goes wrong. We use the tools we have to solve the problems we see, as we see them. There seems to be some sort of confusion here regarding 'punishment.' ( Lugia called it smiting, but same thing. ) Having your topic/post deleted/edited is not a 'punishment,' it's a corrective action to make sure the forum doesn't have things in it which are contrary to its atmosphere. It's easier for us to just fix it and move on than to haul you up and give you a stern talking-to or something like that. So we do. And then when you complain, you get the somewhat stern talking-to. The fact your post was deleted is an indicator that you shouldn't do whatever it was you just did - you get a reason for the deletion in your updates log. We're not demanding you explain why you did it, we're essentially brushing it under the carpet so nobody can go "That's wrong!" or "Why can he do that and not me?" Warnings are warnings; when you get a warning, you have been warned that if you keep behaving in the same way, you will be punished. A punishment would be a ban, and once banned you're not really in a position to complain; if you can physically complain about being 'punished,' nobody has punished you. Nobody is saying you're not allowed to be humorous, but - for example - the Developer Help board is not a place to mock someone for getting something wrong. Even in Off-Topic, a post that has no constructive or expressive content is basically a waste of ( a tiny amount of ) space on a webserver somewhere, and means someone skimming the forums might not see a more useful topic - more people are going to go 'lol' at a cat picture than are going to post a response that requires them to think deeply about their opinion on something, for instance. Much as Tom already said; this isn't a place for funny cat pictures, or videos of people falling over, or meme copy-pasting. Those things do have a place, but a games development website is probably not it. | |
So when posts get deleted, it's just for a professional outlook; I gathered that much. I will note that I have never seen humour in dev help nor do I ever wish to.
Now we run into the issue, how is it decided that something is "not worthy" of being posted. I think right now there is some sort of anime argument going on about which is better, character A or character B. Why does that remain (which is hardly gaming development) while other things are removed? Where is the line drawn? Can I propose any debate so long as I do it in off-topic? To stick with my usage of Godwin's Law, suppose I proposed a well founded argument on why the Nazis were truly doing something good. Would that be deleted? And if so, how would it be different from this anime argument? And if you're REALLY going to try to play the server space card, it's not like you can't delete these posts after they've run their course. What I see is Tom trying to turn BYOND into a real business-like website. Doing this might scare off some of the user-base (which is what I was referring to in my previous post). Perhaps you want to scare these "non-serious game developers" off. But while you see a kid that loves anime, goofing off, and spending mommy/daddy's money that has little potential to learn how to program, I see someone who, given the proper prodding, can become at least a half-way competent programmer. BYOND is supposed to be a place to "Build Your Own Net Dream" which is the lure that brings people here. An easy to learn language where you have a lot of work done for you in making games. When you try to ramp it up and turn it into some professional programming language, but you do it to every aspect of the site, you take away some of that "attractiveness" that brought people in before. You change your user-base (again, maybe you want that). If BYOND is truly meant to be a place for hobbyists, stop trying to make it completely professional. That's kind of the point of it being a hobby and not a profession. | |
I don't know if you spoke with any other moderators, but I still have our conversation if you would like me to post it.
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I had spoken to others and if I recall you were quite fine, I wouldn't bother post but thanks for the offer.
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This feature only works if both members haven't removed the page I think...
Seems the few people I have had a conversation with it doesn't show when I click the name matter of fact it only shows on one person here and that was a page from one - 2 days back. | |
Back again, this post is in return to a stupid move one of your moderators has pulled as noted before "they are quick to delete things" they also delete useful things.
10:54 am BYOND Alert MODERATORNAME *** deleted your comment 'Re: byond comic season 2 ep 7': Acknowledged. [Link] OP - http://www.byond.com/forum/?post=700012 Answer - 10:05 am A.T.H.K use the img tag .. http://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_img.asp So in short I answered the OP's question when they asked how to embed the image in questions (which is now embedded using the correct tags). But it seems my post has been removed, one would of thought you would of kept that post for future reference. [EDIT] Not to mention that the excuse for the deletion is pathetic and useless. It really doesn't bother me it just comes back to everything posted in this topic and it makes me laugh that the mod trolls are so quick reminds me of my days F5'ing 4chan ... | |
Your post wasn't pertinent to the topic. The OP had enacted what you suggested regards image tags; so, your post had been acknowledged. I simply trimmed it out (as I usually do with posts of this sort.)
If you wish to start a topic about post formatting and how to use tags, by all means do so, I'll sticky it somewhere. If you consider such pruning to be trolling, that's really your prerogative. | |
What you have done pretty much proves everything that Forum_Account has said to be true and correct.
Did you really think that it was necessary to remove the post that had informative information on it? if that's the case I would love to see what you "prune" on developer help... Honestly it was stupid to remove it... | |
Your post could have been a treatise on the simulating - at runtime - of the mechanical action of peristalsis. This, whilst useful to some people and very interesting, would still not be relevant to laserdog's comic strip.
So yes, it was off-topic and I removed it. It was helpfully off-topic, but once you'd done the helping-bit it wasn't necessary anymore. As I've said in the past. Removing a post is not a punishment. I am not trying to intimidate you or bully you. I removed a post. If you honestly think that post is deeply informative, make your own topic titled "A.T.H.K's tidbits" or something. :) Like I said, if we get a post full of genuinely useful information I'll get it stickied. | |
Suppose another person had seen the post and wanted to put up images but they didn't know how? They'd see the comment asking how to put images in the post, they'd see the answer, and bada bing. That's one less person asking how you put images on BYOND.
As a sidenote, it's interesting to see +1, -1, -2 posts remain while things like "put things in img tags" get deleted. Wouldn't you say? | |
I'm personally in favour of removing "<quote> +1" posts, just waiting to see if we have a consensus on doing so. And that person would either have to google "image tags" or "html images" or ask. I'd rather have someone ask technical questions and have the information in a central place than have it spread into off-topic bundles in a bunch of places.
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I say we need a +1 system if we can't show our thanks for their posts. I was one of those posters, but I wasn't expecting them to stay. I expected them to be deleted. But yeah. A +1 system on posts would be nice.
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A.T.H.K wrote:
Yea, I don't know where the technology broke down. I specifically remember sitting around for a good half hour in case he paged me, but I never got anything. It's even stranger that he didn't get the deletion alerts.
A.T.H.K wrote:
For reference, what was impolite?
You could argue the rather terse reasons given in the log as being impolite, and we can try to be more descriptive, but I think it's usually pretty evident why the action was taken (minus the situation with your thread that was mixed up with Falacy's spam--which we've already been through).
As for some of the more playful warnings given after successive moderation: if you want respect, you have to show it in kind.
A.T.H.K wrote:
To my knowledge, no one (well, except Falacy) was punished for any of the events mentioned in this thread. The content was removed, and you were asked not to do it again. You were not banned, not even after you continued to repost the topic several times after being told explicitly not to.