"Acebloke, if they're so secret, then how do you know about them?"
Because believe it or not, people find them. Their still secret, because they didnt tell anyone their there. Also, that is the term they use for US prisons out in the middle of no-where off US-soil.
Acey, I've got 10 bucks saying that many european countries have allowed the use of torture one time or another in the past 10 years...
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<quote>
Also, Jp, do you really think that what comes out of Bush's mouth has any relation to reality? </quote> I still found the quote hilarious. That guy really has no idea what he's saying or doing. Acebloke - There are no such things as WORKING lie detectors and truth serums. It's all junk. Especially the polygraph. Woah, 52% accuracy when the person concerned is answering closed question! That's slightly better then just guessing! | |
Thats different, thats the past tense.
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Garthor, how am I being like Zeen? I didn't generalize I cleary stated, that I find that a lot of them are. Yes, I have acutal had conversations with people in European nations and a lot of the time to me it sounds pretty damn ignorant. I am not trying to generalize and say all, hell I didn't even mean to put most, it just seems like a fair amount are just as bad.
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"Acebloke - There are no such things as WORKING lie detectors and truth serums. It's all junk. Especially the polygraph. Woah, 52% accuracy when the person concerned is answering closed question! That's slightly better then just guessing!"
Actualy there is. No, its not perfect, a calm person can pass a lie detector, but "truth serums" actualy just effect the mind so its more spontanious, making questioning easier as they cant really stop themselfs from answering it. It does exist, just not used a big deal. | |
Acebloke said; ""Everyone does it, the only differance is that we say we don't. But I'll be damned if your country doesn't lie either,"
Actualy, a lot of countries DONT use torture as our forms of law systems are fine as it is, it does not require pain to secure information. There maybe things like lie-detectors, truth syrums, but not torture in a physical sense. Us "europeans" have delevoped in a way that its not necessary to torture people." My point wasn't that you guys torture or don't torture, it was that every government lies, one way or another. | |
Acebloke, I have a question if truth serums worked and where not just in testing sages, why wouldn't they make people take them for trails. So they can't lie there way out and it would find a lot of people innocent. There may be truth serums, but there must be something very negative about them that they don't use them.
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Garthor, how am I being like Zeen? I didn't generalize I cleary stated
Well fuck off to you too, I never generalized. | |
Zeen, I never said you did. I was assuming that is what he was reffering to.
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"My point wasn't that you guys torture or don't torture, it was that every government lies, one way or another."
Very true, but not many will actualy say their not doing something that is out in the open and public domain. "Acebloke, I have a question if truth serums worked and where not just in testing sages, why wouldn't they make people take them for trails. So they can't lie there way out and it would find a lot of people innocent. There may be truth serums, but there must be something very negative about them that they don't use them." Because most of us have current law systems, and before something like truth syrum can be used it has to be made part of the legal process for court cases not relevent to national security. It hasnt done that because it'd be a waste of money basicaly, and be pointless in a lot of cases. | |
Oh ok, sorry. :)
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Ah I suppose that makes sense, so it still expensive to make it.
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Bah they need to make a edit comment button. The U.S. if they truely do turture, than they probably do it because it is cheapier, and the US goverment is cheap as hell. I freaking hate the goverment for that and constantly passing stupid ass laws.
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Yep, theres a delete button but no edit. Usualy I'll copy the post, correct it and post it again, then delete the last one.
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Oh no... It's another "China" post all over again... no, he started off by saying, "Condi Rice has been...", so its clear what he means there. that is different than saying "they do this" and "they do that". proper nouns and words like "government" really help. nice try though, i see where you were going with that. its illegal to kill, but you probably don't think the same way about all cases. what if its an accident? what if its self defense? even for something as terrible as killing another person, there are some cases where you'd said "oh, well that's not so bad then." why should it be any different with torture? just like hurting or killing someone for self-defense, its a last resort. you don't walk down the street and kill everyone you see for "self-defense". similiarly, the government wouldn't torture anyone without good reason. not that it necessarily works that way, but i wouldn't have a problem if that's the way it did work. "And what makes your word more valuable than hers?" i accuse you of lying. my word is better than yours because i am not lying. so you must be lying. that's how it works, right? The U.S. if they truely do turture, than they probably do it because it is cheapier, and the US goverment is cheap as hell. oh yeah, how about that cheap death penalty. some money saver that is. they sure found that in the bargain bin. it was "buy one controversial policy get one free". it had a dent in it so it was half price. just kidding, it costs a lot of money. I freaking hate the goverment for that and constantly passing stupid ass laws. any examples? | |
OFD, the death plenty a state thing. I guess it's not really the fedural goverment that I hate it's more of the state goverments like NY state. One of the stupid laws that comes to mind is the ban on smoking in bars. First off this is complete moronic, they can't justify it. Anyone that works in a bar should know people are going to smoke in it. It just pisses me off that they can pull this kind of shit. The other thing is that congress gives them selves raises.
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no, he started off by saying, "Condi Rice has been...", so its clear what he means there. that is different than saying "they do this" and "they do that". proper nouns and words like "government" really help. nice try though, i see where you were going with that.
Yeah, I'm suposed to know all the animal torturer's names aswell according to your logic. :) | |
It gets even worse if you're over here listening to the political wrangling. The Cheney administration is actually fighting against a bill to explicitly ban the CIA and other government agencies from using any form of torture (a bill with its most vocal supporters in the Republican party, no less!), specifically on the grounds that we don't torture.
"We DO NOT USE TORTURE. That is why it is of vital national security interest that we have the RIGHT to use torture. Because we do not use it!" | |
And you're being just like George Bush, your hero. :)