"Artists"... Yeah right, more like RIPOFF ARTISTS

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Nov 10 2008, 12:54 pm
Kataharo Tayoko wrote:
wahh? lol...

Yes, it's true. A freelancer likely doesn't have the ability and experience of a professional. Essentially, this is the basic scale of ability:
  • Amateur
  • Freelancer
  • Professional
Nov 10 2008, 12:55 pm
Jeff8500 wrote:
Chris-g1 wrote:
The Magic Man wrote:
Rubbish. I just had a look, I can hire a PROFESSIONAL artist who does this sort of thing for a living and has a lot of experience doing so, their work commonly used in magazines, businesses and on TV for $100 an image.

For $250 for an 800x600 image I could apparently hire someone with like 20+ years of experience.

Then do it.


You don't understand what he's saying. He's saying that freelance workers should be cheaper than professional artists, and that if he did have 250$ to waste, he would have a professional artist do it, not some 20 year old working out of their apartment.

I know what he ment, im just saying if he is complaining about the prices he has heard and has just found a professional that does it for less the half what he is complaining about, he should take it.

Dont forget this is peoples profession and for quality art comes quality prices.
Nov 10 2008, 12:57 pm
Kataharo Tayoko wrote:
He's saying that freelance workers should be cheaper than professional artists,

wahh? lol...

If I can pay $250 for 20 years of experience, then how much do you think I should be paying for 1-5 years of experience (which is more or less what most of these amateurs have, provided most are not even out of their teens, and if they are not by much)?
Around $13 to $70.

In short, why am I going to pay some amateur $250 for a picture, when I can hire someone who has been doing the job for longer than that amateur has even been alive... For the same price?
Nov 10 2008, 1:15 pm (Edited on Nov 10 2008, 1:49 pm)
What exactly were you asking for? I mean more specifically than "a few pictures" and "800x600, etc". Did you just want a simple sketch or something more? And for what?

Also 16 hours for a small sprite with a very simple animation? I'm not great artist, but I could do that in 1-2 hours max.

And there would be an enormous gap in quality between what you put together and what he could come up with. The kind of gap that justifies 16 hours, and allows him to charge what he charges. 70 frames for a quality 8 direction base is no "very simple animation". 1-2 hours max? Severe exaggeration, unless we're talkin' stick figures.
Nov 10 2008, 1:21 pm
Did somebody say nay? Or was it my imagination?
Nov 10 2008, 1:42 pm
The term "freelancer" does not suggest the artist's skill. His portfolio does that. In fact, all the "professional" artist i've heard of -are- freelancers in their spare time away from working for larger commission projects.

Nov 10 2008, 1:52 pm (Edited on Nov 10 2008, 1:58 pm)
Kataharo Tayoko wrote:
The term "freelancer" does not suggest the artist's skill. His portfolio does that. In fact, all the "professional" artist i've heard of -are- freelancers in their spare time away from working for larger commission projects.


^This.

Try callin' Ray Frenden or Jimiyo amateurs just because they freelance.

Blah, anyways, simple solution: find someone willing to do the job cheap. Probably won't be amazing, but if it's all you can afford, it's all you can afford.
Nov 10 2008, 3:10 pm
I'm also curious as to the specifics of the images you asked for. I still reckon they were being way OTT with their prices.

Im also wondering if anyone can link me to one of these "Near $1000 images". You never know, I may end up changing my career direction, for me to earn £1000 would take me 83 hours at my current job.
Nov 10 2008, 3:12 pm
Be good, get many many fans on FA,DA,Sheezy,etc. Never do commissions or art trades. Put out one of your drawings after having a bunch of watchers out for sale.

It'll easily reach 5k+.

Hell someone paid 10k for a SECOND LIFE "town".
Nov 10 2008, 4:41 pm
AmonR wrote:
Kataharo Tayoko wrote:
The term "freelancer" does not suggest the artist's skill. His portfolio does that. In fact, all the "professional" artist i've heard of -are- freelancers in their spare time away from working for larger commission projects.


^This.

Try callin' Ray Frenden or Jimiyo amateurs just because they freelance.

Blah, anyways, simple solution: find someone willing to do the job cheap. Probably won't be amazing, but if it's all you can afford, it's all you can afford.

Amateur doesn't necessarily mean that they don't know what they're doing; it just means that they don't do it for a living.
Nov 10 2008, 5:56 pm
Magic doesn't even know what he's complaining about. Him and Fizz are using freelancer out of context. Programming isn't like pixel art, unlike in programming you could start on your first year and be Godlike. Look at this guy Fool, he was among the top pixel artists over at PJ even on his first year. What you don't know is most of those freelancers ARE professionals!

And I can't believe you called Indigo a scam artist (the ideal pixel artist -_-, seriously if there was a "role model" award for pixel artists it would be given to him), you must be out of your fruity mind. Have you seen his work? -_- He's like a demon, it's the people like him that rape even the GBA artists or wherever your friend works. (P.S. he is a professional).

There's a big difference from the artists you find on Byond and the ones you find all over the net and unless you know any of them expect the typical prices for artists of their caliber.
Nov 10 2008, 6:05 pm
I would say that there is a vast difference between digital art and pixel art.

$500 for a 64x64, 250x60 and 800x600 used for byond is just too much. Even $250 is too expensive for that. It would be like paying someone $250 ($125) an hour to create something suficient enough that the buyer would be pleased with.
Nov 10 2008, 7:10 pm
Danny Roe wrote:

$500 for a 64x64, 250x60 and 800x600 used for byond is just too much.

You Byond'ers and your out-of-touch to reality thinking. For byond, for y\game maker, for your mom. Doesn't make a difference. Art is art. This is one of the things that separate indie games from other games.

Even $250 is too expensive for that. It would be like paying someone $250 ($125) an hour to create something suficient enough that the buyer would be pleased with.

Wtf kind of logic is that? A full digital painting the size of 800x600 -would- take AT LEAST 10 hours of work. Seing 25 an hour is pretty average for an artist. 250$ for -all- the paintings, not just the large one seems like a bargain.

Like I said before, 250$ is a good base price. And the only way you'll get it cheaper is if a good friend was doing you a favor.


Like AmonR said, if you cant afford it, you cant afford it.
Nov 10 2008, 7:18 pm
This all still all depends on exactly what Magic asked of the artists.
Nov 10 2008, 7:18 pm
As I asked before, please provide a link to what you would consider (roughly) an 800x600 image that is worth $500.

The final product would have to be immense for me to pay two weeks wages for it; I don't care how long he spent making the thing.
Nov 10 2008, 7:45 pm
Hulio-G wrote:
Magic doesn't even know what he's complaining about. Him and Fizz are using freelancer out of context. Programming isn't like pixel art, unlike in programming you could start on your first year and be Godlike. Look at this guy Fool, he was among the top pixel artists over at PJ even on his first year. What you don't know is most of those freelancers ARE professionals!

Maybe I misunderstood it, but what you just said it basically you can be "godlike" at programming within a year and the same with pixel art. And because of this I am a fool?

And I can't believe you called Indigo a scam artist (the ideal pixel artist -_-, seriously if there was a "role model" award for pixel artists it would be given to him), you must be out of your fruity mind. Have you seen his work? -_- He's like a demon, it's the people like him that rape even the GBA artists or wherever your friend works. (P.S. he is a professional).

I was basing the fact that he is a rip off on that he was trying to charge $25 an hour for a 32x32 sprite and claimed it would take 16 hours to do.
If you didn't work it out that is $400 for the average BYOND character walking sprite.

For $25 I could hire an artist of this quality
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w320/ynlraey/cc-2.png
or even this quality
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v133/Timpac/
to make an entire walking sprite.

If you ask me, pixel art is easy actually. I'm not particularly fond of it, but given a year I know I could be better than http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/29178.htm that guy. But pixel art is dull, and I do not like it.


Kataharo Tayoko wrote:
You Byond'ers and your out-of-touch to reality thinking. For byond, for y\game maker, for your mom. Doesn't make a difference. Art is art. This is one of the things that separate indie games from other games.

Rubbish. I play a lot of indie games WITHOUT art, or very poor art. Just so happens these games are also considered some of the best around. Dwarf Fortress, Cave Story, Knytt Stories and I could list a lot more if I sat down for a minute and thought about it.

You people also seem to be miss understanding something. I was not attempting to hire some free lance or professional artist.
I was attempting to hire some kid who likes drawing, and does it in his spare time.

Also, what I am being charged for is this...
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t248/twinfoxtails/ cropkitty.png
But at a 800x600 resolution, and with a simple, solid colouring that is reminicent of a cartoon.
Nov 10 2008, 7:47 pm (Edited on Nov 11 2008, 10:40 am)
I'm Indigo. I thought I should make a post because my name was mentioned. I just want to put a few things into perspective.

A pixel artist is more or less a form of illustrator. This type of art is highly sought for (in a niche market) and is a valued profession. In short answer as to why these artists charge as much as they do is because people are willing to pay it. If their art was not worth the amount they say it was, they simply would not get much work and would have to lower their prices.

I can understand why you would find it expensive, because a lot of these prices were not meant to be funded by individuals, but rather by established gaming companies with funding.

With that said, lets look into some figures here.

Artistry is actually a much more underpaid career path than many other options. How much do you plan to make in the future? An average family doctor makes around $160,000 a year. An experienced video game programmer gets around $80-100,000 a year. -But what does an average video game artist make? Between $50-70,000. Senior artists make more, but not by much.

if you want to break it down into hours. $25/hr is on the LOW END of the gaming artist spectrum. That quote from me that was mentioned earlier is quite the deal in terms of industry rates. I usually don't bother with freelance work these days (unless it's commercial) as my time is mostly consumed with my on-site work at Glu Mobile. Ironically, I get paid well over 25/hr there.

A quick note about using canvas size as a rate comparison: This is dangerous because you're dealing with many different kinds of Digital artists. A 100x100 pixel art image can be accomplished in (lets say) 6 hours, while a CG illustrator could do one at 1000x1000 in the same amount of time. while a graphic designer may be able to do a 1000x1000 image in much less than 6 hours because he does not deal with illustration.

Canvas size comparisons are irrelevant unless you know which medium you're speaking of. This is simply because different mediums go about creating the art in very different ways (and for very specific purposes). Pixel art, for example, is all about creating the most detail with the least amount of space with the least amount of colors. CG art has no restrictions like this which allows them to create much larger pieces of art in the same amount of time.

anyway, it's something to think about
-Dan

PS. For the person who said they can create 70 frames of animation within a couple hours - you are my new hero.
Nov 10 2008, 7:56 pm
Calypson wrote:

Artistry is actually a much more underpaid career path than many other options. How much do you plan to make in the future? An average family doctor makes around $160,000 a year. An experienced video game programmer gets around $120-140,000 a year. -But what does an average video game artist make? Between $50-70,000. Senior artists make more, but not by much.

I have no idea where you got these numbers from, but they are pretty inaccurate.

My Aunt is an Optometrist, she gets paid $80,000 a year. If she became a private GP she'd get paid around $100,000 a year.

A video game programmers wage will start as low as $30,000 a year. With a very experience programmer earning maybe $50,000 a year, and a lead programmer earning at max about $80,000 a year.

I have no idea how much a video game artist gets paid since I'm not particularly interested in it, but if it is on average $50,000 to $70,000 and more for a senior artist... That is more than a video game programmer is earning, by a significant amount.

PS. For the person who said they can create 70 frames of animation within a couple hours - you are my new hero.

70 Frames for a 32x32 WALKING (or running was it?) animation isn't that much work. Provided the sprite would lack detail, since it was to be used as a template and most of those frames would have likely been minor edits of other frames anyway. I could totally do that within 2 hours.
Nov 10 2008, 7:57 pm
I was basing the fact that he is a rip off on that he was trying to charge $25 an hour for a 32x32 sprite and claimed it would take 16 hours to do.
If you didn't work it out that is $400 for the average BYOND character walking sprite.

Again, 70 frames, 8 directions, at I imagine a good quality. NOT "the average BYOND character walking sprite".


If you ask me, pixel art is easy actually. I'm not particularly fond of it, but given a year I know I could be better than http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/29178.htm that guy. But pixel art is dull, and I do not like it.

Another severe exaggeration. Especially if you don't like it.

Also, what I am being charged for is this...
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t248/twinfoxtails/ cropkitty.png
But at a 800x600 resolution, and with a simple, solid colouring that is reminicent of a cartoon.

Finally, the context of the post. Not a $500 piece of work.
Nov 10 2008, 8:07 pm
I'm surprised indigo Posted, and I'll take the time to thank him here. And I have to agree with AmonR here.... that is -not- worth 500 bucks, especially since its a cartoony/few color shading.
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