ID:41259
 
Ok, imagine this situation. You want to make a sandwich with [insert random meat here], lettuce, tomato, cucumber and mayonaisse.

In real life(tm) you would go to the kitchen, pull all of those and some bread out of the refridgerator and then slap them all in between two pieces of bread. Time taken to do so is... Maybe 1 minute, depending on how far away the kitchen is.

Now in this game I am making to make said sandwhich you have to...

First you need ingredients. Which don't appear out of thin air.

For meat you have to go out and find then kill an animal. So step 1 is find an animal, step 2 is kill it.
But an animal that is killed doesn't suddenly become meat to eat. You have to butcher said corpse and get the meat from it. Step 3 is to butcher said corpse.

Now we have our meat (to make things epic it is DRAGON MEAT) we need Lettuces, Tomatoes and Cucumbers which we need to be grow. To grow them we first need to plow a suitable plot of land (Step 4), plant the seeds (step 5, lets ignore how I got them), water and wait for seeds to grow (step 6). Once they have grown we need to harvest them (step 7).

And finally we need bread. For simplicities sake we also grew wheat with the other things and harvested it.
Now we need to mill said wheat into flour. But wait! To mill things requires a mill.
So first we need to get out trusty pick-axe and go mining (step 8) then we need to get suitable materials (step 9) and build a mill (step 10) again to make things simple the process of building a mill is compressed to a single step.
Now we have a mill we mill our wheat into flour (step 11).
Now we need to turn that flour into dough. To do this we need water. But we first need a suitable container to collect water in.
I need make a glass bottle to hold water, which requires sand (step 12) and a furnace, which needs to be build (mine, collect have been done to make things quicker), step 13 is building a furnace. Then we need to heat the furnace, lets just use wood, now I need to find and chop down a tree (step 14), then bring wood to furnace and put it in then light it (step 15). Now I melt sand into glass and blow it into a bottle (step 16).
Now I have flour and water I need yeast. To make things about 20 steps easier (growing a suitable yeast producing plant and then extracting yeast from said plant) I just happened to buy some the other day and still have it handy.
Now I need to throw all ingredients into a bowl and mix (step 17) then bake the bread, to be cheeky I will use the furnace I already built to do this (step 18).
Now I have everything I need, and have to slap it all together (step 19) and finally I have me a sammich!

If I had gone through every single step (such as making a knife to cut the bread, extracting yeast and so on) I'd be looking at closer to 50 steps to make a sammich. But making sammiches after that would likely be quicker as I'd have everything ready to do so.
Also, at any point along the line I could skip certain steps as other people could have already grown, mined, build or prepared certain items I needed to make my sandwich (or I could have bought them). But for the first person in the world who wants to make a sandwich, they have a hell of a job in front of them!

So yeah. Is this many steps too many for making an simple item?

Although I want this game to be founded on and built by it's players (in a sense that players control the world which is not predefined) should I add some sort of method which can help cut down on a lot of the work said above?
But how? At the moment I am planning on having a wandering band of merchants stop by every so often with a random inventory of things to sell. Do you think this would work or not, and if not what would you do?
If it takes more than two steps to make a sandwich in a game, the game is too complicated.
Popisfizzy wrote:
If it takes more than two steps to make a sandwich in a game, the game is too complicated.

I would say that is not really the case.
At minimum I'd say closer to 3 steps, if you could gathering all the required ingredients as one step.
1. Get tools
2. Get ingredients
3. Use tools/ingredients to make sandwhich.
If you need 2 tools (knife and chopping board) and say 5 ingredients then not including the entire process of gathering those ingredients (killing an animal to get meat) you are looking at 8 steps.

If you ask me, 2 steps is way too few, but 18+ steps is way too many :[
Not enough steps.

I say you start off with the component elements and have to make everything by endlessly stringing elements/molecules together.
should I add some sort of method which can help cut down on a lot of the work said above?

I'm thinking Subway. Then get a player-based staff to do all the hard work so the rest of us can enjoy a nice fat, juicy sandwich anytime of the day.

Runescape is like that, except not only do you need all those steps but simpler steps repeated over and over to get enough skill for those steps. And stuff sells for less than the cost of the steps to make stuff, because stuff is just a by-product of skiller-grind.

So party hats are worth billions of gold, go figure.

Seems like you are going for an immersive virtual reality, but is it a fun game or a hard work simulator? To me, following a bunch of steps isn't fun unless the steps involve danger and tactical approaches. So make short cuts to anything that is tedius and focus on stuff that is fun.
Traztx wrote:
Runescape is like that, except not only do you need all those steps but simpler steps repeated over and over to get enough skill for those steps. And stuff sells for less than the cost of the steps to make stuff, because stuff is just a by-product of skiller-grind.

So party hats are worth billions of gold, go figure.

Seems like you are going for an immersive virtual reality, but is it a fun game or a hard work simulator? To me, following a bunch of steps isn't fun unless the steps involve danger and tactical approaches. So make short cuts to anything that is tedius and focus on stuff that is fun.



I want the aspect of the game that doesn't involve too much combat to be more roleplaying related that pure gaming.
But you are right :[ It could just seem like too much work for nothing basically. But, for the most part I am trying to make things quick and not too time consuming. So even if something has 20 steps to make it, it probably wont take more than 2-3 minutes to actually do.

When you are mining you don't have a skill that determines how successful you are and spend 20 minutes getting the items you need from one rock, each rock can be mined once, which will 90% of the time produce useable material, sometimes only a little, other times a lot. The mining skill only really effects how fast you will mine (mining through the hardest material will take you 3 seconds, with a maxed out mining skill that it cut down to about 0.6 seconds). Mining it's self isn't too dangerous, provided you don't mine wide open areas (chance of caving in) and you don't accidentally run into the home of some underground monster. I wanted to put in things like underground rivers and magma flows too, but things like that are much to complex for me to do efficiently.
Though, I am not sure how I can make farming exciting, dangerous or tactical :[ "Oh shi---!!! You accidentally grew a KILLER TOMATO, RUN FOR THE HILLS!!" or "Your carrot patch attracted a swarm of killer bunnies... THE END IS NIGH!". But to make up for it not being exciting it won't be too complex or involving. You will plow land, plant seeds, water and then either wait or go off and do whatever. After say, 1 or so minutes you will be able to harvest the crop, or you can water again and wait longer. The amount of crops you harvest depends largely on how much you water the plant and how long you let it grow for.

Though I will try to make things as exciting as possible something just ARE NOT EXCITING, like watching grass grow (or in this case waiting for plants to grow). And in the case that it is not exciting I will try to make it either quick and easy to do, or not too involving so you can do other things at the same time.