62% (56)
3% (3)
5% (5)
4% (4)
6% (6)
16% (15)Okay, enough with the animevangelism. You people (note the derogatory connotation) will not sway me into thinking it's good. Ever. Any of it.
Anime sucks. I'd follow that up with "in my opinion" but it's just not; it's fact. That's okay though; plenty of people like things that suck. I like some things that suck too. And plenty of people who I greatly respect like anime a lot. More power to them. But it sucks, hard and on toast.
This is the point where the animevangelists always have to step in and say: "But you just haven't seen the right anime. A lot of it is crap." I'll freely grant that there are varying levels of quality. Storylines, visual and sound idioms, and character development also have varying degrees to which they're steeped in Japanese culture, which frankly I find way too weird. But my problem is with the art. Even among the best-drawn anime, even with the ones that mostly avoid the big-eye thing and even among those that use 3 or 4 frames per second of animation instead of 2, it all falls within a certain set of traditional parameters. In other words, it all looks like anime.
I don't like the look of anime (and by extension, manga). I'm sick of seeing it. I don't want to see anything that looks like it, regardless of the quality of its story. It could be brilliant and riveting, but I just don't want to see it. It is not for me. Anyone else who wants to like it can go on liking it, but for those who do: Divest yourselves right freaking now of the delusion that anime haters can be swayed into grudgingly admitting it's not all bad, just by showing them the right anime.
"Maybe Picasso isn't for you, but there's other cubist art out there I know you'll really like."
"But you just haven't seen the right John Woo film."
"That isn't even one of Barbara Streisand's best songs; you'll like this one better."
"That nude photo of Tom Jones wasn't taken from his best angle."
"I promise, you'll love Sandra Bernhard in this movie."
"But yesterday's Doonesbury was really funny."
I love the movie Tank Girl. You could say, with some degree of accuracy, that it sucks. It's a goofy movie, and for me it's a guilty pleasure. I'd like for more people I know to like it, but it's okay if they don't. It's not really a whole genre, but the point is there anyway. Another reason I bring it up is because there's a song in the film, a nice little punk rock ditty (2¢ by Beowülf), that sums up my feelings on the issue nicely:
You can't change my mind
You can't change my mind
You can't change my mind
You can't change my mind
So just shut up, shut up, shut up, shut up
Poll: What did you think of the movie Tank Girl?
Login to vote.
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Apr 1 2008, 10:06 pm
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Keeth
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Tank Girl = Good
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I've never seen the movie, but I do agree with your title 10000%.
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Lummox you're nobody to state things as fact.
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Its based on opinion.
Also the first anime I saw was Little Nemo (I think it was an anime. It was a movie, but made in Japan first I think.) | |
Eh, I'm neither here nor there. I enjoy the occasional anime. I even have a few box sets within my DVD collection. But nothing will ever overtake Family Guy and Futurama in my opinion.
And Lummox, dude, you totally haven't seen the right anime yet. I checked out this last one, Death Note, it's freaking awesome man. Seriously, you should totally give it a looking at. I mean, come on, you'll love it! It's just perfect for you! (For the daft of you, that last paragraph was complete sarcasm...) | |
Rugg wrote:
Its based on opinion. Little Nemo in Slumber Land was an american comic strip. Maybe it was something else? Personally, the first anime I saw was Sailor Moon on Cartoon Network like 8 years ago. Then I saw Pokemon, then Dragonball Z, then Dragonball. I didn't even know what anime was at the time. | |
Well the movie was anime-ish. I dont know.
"The film was released in Japan in July 1989 and in the United States on August 21, 1992." Maybe just the style of the animation. It was a good movie nonetheless. Oh and everyone has probably watched pokemon during the red/blue craze. | |
"Oh and everyone has probably watched pokemon during the red/blue craze."
I think Pokemon is usually something for the younger generation. Those of us who grew up fighting for VCR tapes are often not fans. It's episodic and doesn't have the sex and violence shock value that often draws people to the medium. At least a cartoon from the US would have better jokes. | |
The animation style of anime never bothered me on the base design. There are some animes that are just horrid, like DBZ, when it comes to style. But then there are some like Cowboy Bebop that does have a high framerate and a very cool style. I'm not going to tell you Cowboy Bebop will change your mind, but it isn't deep in Jap culture. It's got a nice animation style. A cool Sci-Fi story. And all together an interesting show. Oh yeah, and it doesn't take them 5 episodes to start fighting. And when people hit the ground, they stay there.
Besides a few very rare exceptions, anime is horribly generic and boring, but the same could be said about American TV shows. How many sitcoms do we need about a fat ugly white guy marrying a hot chick and having 2-3 kids. I should make a anime flowchart that will define almost every anime ever made in about 10 blocks. | |
Cowboy Bebop is what precipitated this rant, since Fizz was appalled that I'd care more about its artistic Fail than about its story. I think his offense was based on the fact that he writes himself and just doesn't like the idea of a good story being unappreciated. I write too, and I can live with it just fine.
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What story? Cowboy Bebop has concepts that sometimes carry over, but I think it's mostly about doing pretty things within the setting without becoming procedural. I find it decent, but I also think it gets too much hype.
That said, what are some good cartoons from outside Japan that can scratch the same itch as anime does? We have Avatar and... what? The US tends to focus on either comedy or episodic franchises for kids. Even if we did get something good, chances are it would be canceled. One good thing about importing shows is that you often know if you will reach an ending. | |
I think you make a good point, AC. Foreign TV is a lot more saga-driven than US TV; or at least that could be said of the BBC and such. One notable exception to that was Babylon 5, a show that was designed to have no more than a 5-year run.
In more recent years American TV has gotten more into story arcs and long plot lines, but it definitely does have a season-to-season feel about it, and if a show gets cacneled before tying up loose ends it enrages fans. But there aren't any short (e.g. intended for 13-26 episodes only) standalone sagas. | |
I hate cartoons. I stopped watching them when I was 12. I don't care where they're made. I hated The Simpsons and Futurama too, but I had to put up with my brother watching them until I was like 18.
Never seen Family Guy and hope I never do, seen King of the Hill one time too many, and that's really all I know about. Anime makes me WISH it gave me seizures, then maybe my brain would shut down. Hate hate hate hate hate!!! :) | |
Well, Cowboy Bebop did have an overarching story, but it was second to making sure the show was interesting. Most of the story was coming from backstory that popped up here in there, but in the end they tied it all up. The problem with most animes is that they have a story line that took 5 days to write but they stretch it over 8 seasons. Most animes could be summed up in a single movie.
Foomer: Boo on you. Cartoons are just another form of video entertainment. No reason to net hate them all. I also don't see how a human could hate Futurama. I mean, I could see not finding it interesting. But hate? That's a strong word. You make Seymour sad http://dbeta.com/byond/seymour.png :( | |
Cowboy Bebop filled in characters a bit, but there was never a feeling that the show was going anywhere plot-wise.
There are some horribly paced anime series out there, but I think they are more likely to only last 26 to 52 episodes. DBZ, Inuyasha, Sailor Moon, and Naruto (with its horrible fillers*) are freakishly long. * Even I'm watching Shippuden online... Not that I'm impressed with the pacing of that either. | |
Danial.Beta wrote:
Foomer: I mean, I could see not finding it interesting. But hate? That's a strong word. Yes, and I used it 5 times for emphasis. | |
Zoidberg Jesus is not amused at your distain for the show he is in.
Back on topic, I think 26-52 episodes is too long to carry a single objective, at least a targeted one like "kill this guy". I'm actually not a fan of storys that take 13 hours to tell. Especially when those 13 hours are broke into 30 minute segments and release on a weekly schedule. Made worse by the fact that if you missed an episode you would be lost for another 3 episodes. | |
Samurai Champloo was good too.
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Note that I didn't get into that long discussion just because you hate anime. I hate almost all anime, and, as I said, I could count the select few I like on two hands. What I do think is stupid is that you hate it, regardless of how well-developed and good the story is, just because of something so superficial. I find it incredibly shallow and I'm still dissapointed in you, particularly because you like to write.
[Edit] Also, the point at which you start asserting your opinion as absolute fact is the point at which you go steeper and steeper into the pit of dumbassery. | |