The treadmilling that I was talking about largely begins the moment you reach the Shrine of Dhama, and then it takes another spike upward the instant you find the advanced classes. After that it's sitting around and ighting for 30+ levels until you can beat DLG, then a couple dozen more until you fight Mildrath afterward. Considering the distance between the two is...almost 7 screens apart from each other, that's a really short distance with a lot of level-catching up to do.
My whole argument against class-changing was that it helps keep things balanced. It's certainly not a one size fits all game perfecter, at least that's not what I intended to say. Game balance is more than just class = class = class. It's also to do with players = monsters as well. Many of the monsters and bosses get a real surge in ability because from Dhama on, the game's difficulty needs to factor in a player's ability to have every single skill attainable at that point in the game. And onec that happens, any hope for most of those skills to be really useful goes out the window.
SoE's monsters take a hike up in difficulty too, but for different reasons. One, Lute said that defense doesn't work the way it should anyway, so if/when that's fixed the monster difficulty curve should even out a lot, but the latter half of the game seemed to be based around the average level of the powerlevelers at the time. Fixing that, however, is easier than what it would take for DWQ though.
To address a point I think I skipped, yes some classes will always be a bit more preferred over others. A lack of CCing keeps the different classes specialized somewhat, though. The only reason that most of what I say doesn't apply to DWQ is because it's not really a multiplayer game.
cowdude, again, you're making assumptions about a game you havent played in months. i realize soe lacked (whaaa? past tenssse?) boss monsters, which is why i pissed everyone in the team off by refusing to host or update the game until lute coded in another boss. so he did (note: this was back in march '05). and guess what? it took him less than a week. har har har. anyhow, there are huge new areas you know nothing about, cowdude, as well as new items, new weapons, and many many new monsters including, the aforementioned new boss. now as i said before, shut the FUCK UP about shit you know nothing about.
and sarm; thank you for this: "(dwq is) not really a multiplayer game." That is absolutely correct. i can play an NES rom, and chat with someone over AIM, and have the same experience. the only character interaction is giving people gold? and items? yay. big whoop. and by the way, i can ban whoever the fuck i want from my server. it's my bandwidth, and i refuse to waste it on people i just plain don't like. i dont ever want to see you on soe (or soe2) again, cowdude. your unmerited slander has already caused *who knows how much* damage to our potential player-base, which wouldn't be ban-worthy if the shit you complained about had any real substance at all, so you can take your whiny little ass back to your stupid-ass dw builder game, and be the king of nothing. good day, sir. *edit* by the way, a soldier can carry a "bag" with a lot *high quality* herbs inside, and be FINE without a pilgrim in his party: another incorrect assumption you made because you havent played the game in ages. | |
by the way, I *did* know that you can carry HQ herbs. But still that doesn't help that much, because Soldiers get a lot of HP, and HQ Herbs give you what, 100 or so HP? >_> Bags don't hold enough herbs for you to make it through a gave like that one with the Shield of Erdrick.
And the reason it was so easy to make a second boss is because, like I said, the first one was probably a test to see if he could do it; so he just coded another monster via copy/paste and change some variables around, then just threw a two-line if() proc into the battle-start proc then made a toggle like a turf or an NPC or something. And I probably would have noticed if there was so much more stuff like you mentioned. You're acting as if the last thing I did was get the Magical Bastard Sword when I have a Sword of Darkness and Shield of Erdrick o_O Also, what about Dpheonix7's "Dragon Warrior"? Don't begin to say that's not a Dragon Warrior fan game. | |
Cow... leave Tactics alone.. yeah i'm telling you to stop.. tactics really hasn't been dissing on dwq til this horse crap started..
i really do not feel like dealing with logging on to a game i happen to enjoy playing and finding out that once again bad blood has been stirred up again.. and if you stir the shit then you will deal with it.. i am just an Admin and Chief of staff and that is all fine well and good but i will not put up with being slandered if you or any other dwq member decide to go and make a bad name for some of us who enjoy SoE.. Tactics i know we have had some rough shit in the past but i do want you to know that i do not support anyone from dwq coming over to starting crap with you or any other member of the SoE team.. Wrath Child | |
wrath,
thanks, and btw, any dumb shit from way-back-when was already squashed months ago, bro. i have 0 problems with you or the dwq staff - in fact, most of you guys have been cool as fuck to me since day 1, including grey, lodu, mart, SJ, and of course Soda. cow is a dipshit, and i think anyone who's been around for a while knows that much. thanks, though. | |
A bit of a belated reaction, but maybe someone will see this anyway.
Cowdude wrote: Soldiers can't heal in SoE, so nobody's going to be a soldier unless they multikey. Just wanted to point out that I used a soldier in SoE, and I did not multikey. Not only that, but I went solo and so didn't have any healer class backup at all, and I did it up past level 30. | |
nah you're not that late. Only about 7 months.
I suppose I missed your post by a month, but it's not like I look here every day <_< However, if you take Soldier on SoE solo you have to either carry a lot of herbs or sit outside the towns to train so you can inn, whereas with Pilgrims in your group you can wander farther away. | |
And in a game with no parties like DWQ, class-changing is necessary because nobody is going to take Goof-off through the whole game to try and take out Mildrath. That won't work. If they didn't have class-changing, you would NEED to take Pilgrim or else it would be impossible to finish because nobody would be able to heal otherwise =/
I still don't see how class-changing is a totally bad thing though; because either way, classes will end up being preferred over other classes, such as Wizards getting spells that can outdo the damage the Soldiers can deal with attacks, or Soldiers getting to high enough levels that the damage they can attack for does more damage than spells, even to strong monsters. Then there's the fact that healing classes will almost never be picked unless the person is multikeying, because they're typically weaker (with the exception of Sage, which is way better than both Pilgrim and Wizard statwise, and it learns both kinds of spells.)
Edit (or whatever I call it):
Sarm had said this earlier:
"Granted, SoE isn't nearly as big as DWQ is but it doesn't hit the "treadmill" stage until later on."
Until you get past all of the stuff Mart created (meaning Mildrath; where the game officially ends, meaning you don't have to do anything else) you don't need to "treadmill". Azure had begun a test where he gave a level 1 char a Legend of Heroes as a Soldier and CC'd out of the class at level 20 (minimum level) to Hero to try and get to the end. He only got to Esturk, but that's because he got bored and doesn't really log in much (some guild leader :( oh well SJ doesn't log in much either except to tell us he's downloading stuff and to laugh at us while we suffer the lag; which I don't mind but oh well)
The fact is, you can beat the game without "treadmilling", and you could beat DWQ with a solo class like Hero or Sage. Grey just implemented the other things to give players something to do; but the game officially ends after you defeat Mildrath and it runs the credits and stuff.
I guess SoE does have that swamp monster thing as a boss, but at 300 EXP or whatever for the level it takes to kill it, I'd like to hope that was just a test monster to make sure they could pull off bosses. o_o