BYOND is very much a market economy, because there are few people who can do every task required to make a game (ie coding,graphics, icons,turfs,mapping) there is often an issue of incentive in trying to bring people to work for your game. Ive seen people get paid on a per frame basis for icons because theres so much demand. I find that this is a fantastic part of byond, every single person at one time or another has decided to make their own net dream, and that is the entire point of this community. Heres the problem, we cant do it on our own! So the incentive issue comes up. Its a strange thing, for in game content to be considered of significant worth to people. However necessity is the mother of invention, and the GM has some noble roots as peace keepers. In fact, many people have gotten personally offended by my no GM policy, Ive had KingofSlimes spam GOA relentlessly trying to prove a point that gms are required, of course he was ip banned after the in game system muted him. So we have 2 arguments here, 1. Gms are required to regulate the game and 2. Gm positions are the only reward available to pay off an iconer/mapper/coder what have you.
Heres where GOA's model differs from most Anime games, because the game is interesting in that it is different I already have an edge. Having a WOTS rip is going to set you back really far in finding help, if you dont have an interesting concept or skills to put on the table yourself then your in trouble. However I was able to squeak out the GOA Closed Alpha by myself. Having a proof of concept helped bring together an entire team, and I had to decide how GM's were going to work. I decided, the BYOND accepted belief that GMs are needed is garbage. You should only have one encompassing title for anybody worth putting on your hub page, "Developer". If somebody is contributing to your game then they deserve the Credit, which in and of itself is great. Having credit with a good game will help them later when they decide to make their own dream and need to hire effective staff. Also there are plenty of ways to reward people for working with your project. My favorite is positions. In any Anime there are special positions that have a huge demand. In Naruto you have clan/village/organization leader, in bleach you have the Squad Captains and in Dragonball be creative, the saiyajins have always worked in a hiarchy and theres no reason why you cant emulate that in a BYOND game. Not only are popular in game group positions a great reward for people and incentive to help, but people appreciate these institutions. Having villages makes a Naruto game more fun, having missions and ranks makes the game have a purpose. Just because you place a developer in a position doesn't mean they cant eventually give it up or switch it over, the idea is that the initial positions are prioritized to people who have earned it. Thats my advice to anybody making their own net dream, GMs cause trouble, look at the number one Anime Game right now and its description. You can tell SOC had a problem with a GM, and after running Dragonball Gekisen for 3 years i can tell you Ive seen perfectly nice seeming GMs abuse power and have random emotional breakdowns that end up costing a few people their character, or worse they destroy the balance and integrity of your game. If you want to trust somebody with moderation powers, the mute button is often more than enough. If you code the mute verb to save the offenders key to a world list then mute avoiding is incredibly difficult and not worth the spammers time. Please stop letting perfectly great projects lose their luster by allowing morons to have authority over your players. They play the game for fun, why should they have to deal with some cocky 15 year old with a ban verb and a bad sense of humor.
Jul 23 2007, 8:39 pm
|
|
I hate to say this..but damn, Masterdan has a hella point.
|
Yeah, I'll give you kudos, they aren't needed, and the rips need originality. But, if they're going to be original, they'll normally start from scratch(using your game as a perfect example). Most of the people on BYOND using ripped sources aren't creative, and just want credit for little if any work. and as much as I dislike you as a person(seriously, calm down), you putting out an original(well, it's a Naruto game, but it's as original as Naruto Games on BYOND go) game really ups my respect for you. Hell, if I can, I'll take a look at it whenever you have a testing session up.
|
The real problem, in my view, with "empowered staff members" (I refuse to use the term GM, sorry), is how to confront them when they go apeshit. It's basically the same as to how to confront borderline trolls.
What I mean is that they'll argue, and argue, and argue, and argue until they throw an E-Tantrum at you and your community. And THIS... is what's damaging for any good community. IMO, for some tasks, human intervention IS mandatory. However, I do agree that automation, to a certain extent, can do a better job than a spiteful human being. |
I see two problems with automation.
1) The more rules are automated, the more players are going to find work-arounds under the excuse of "if doing X is against the rules then it would/should be coded out!" and eventually becomes more of a valid point if you keep coding things out. 2) Players can still cause damage to a game and community without abusing any aspects of the game. You can censor all of the four-letter words you like but if you have people chasing out new players without using them, then what are you going to do? In my opinion, "GM status" in a game should never be a reward for doodling icons or throwing stuff together in Dream Maker. If you need someone to moderate a game for you, your biggest priority is trying to find someone who you don't think will flip out and try to ruin the game if something doesn't go his way. You may not be able to read people's minds, of course, but you have to watch your moderators a bit just like those moderators are watching the players. Masterdan wrote: GMs cause trouble, look at the number one Anime Game right now and its description. You can tell SOC had a problem with a GM, and after running Dragonball Gekisen for 3 years i can tell you Ive seen perfectly nice seeming GMs abuse power and have random emotional breakdowns that end up costing a few people their character, or worse they destroy the balance and integrity of your game. About this part, this is more than just a moderator abusing his position, but the developer abusing his own game if he's going to let GMs go far enough to edit/delete player characters. That shit shouldn't be necessary, and doesn't teach the offending player any lesson besides "the moderation is more interested in fucking around with players than disciplining them". Miles_Edgeworth wrote: The real problem, in my view, with "empowered staff members" (I refuse to use the term GM, sorry), is how to confront them when they go apeshit. It's basically the same as to how to confront borderline trolls. It's like pulling weeds. If you have a staff member that's beginning to start drama, you need to cut it out ASAP. You can't let it fester because it's infectious as hell and the more you let drama take root, the more players you're going to rip out once you finally do take action. Players laugh at the idiot who logs into a game for 5 minutes, breaks a rule, gets banned and begins shouting that the staff is unfair. People will believe the veteran player who decides he's entitled to more and breaks the same rules before crying about it. The longer you let them cry, the more of an uproar you'll cause...but you can't let them get away with it because then you're throwing out the purpose of having those rules in the first place. |
Disturbed Puppy wrote:
Yeah, I'll give you kudos, they aren't needed, and the rips need originality. But, if they're going to be original, they'll normally start from scratch(using your game as a perfect example). Most of the people on BYOND using ripped sources aren't creative, and just want credit for little if any work. and as much as I dislike you as a person(seriously, calm down), you putting out an original(well, it's a Naruto game, but it's as original as Naruto Games on BYOND go) game really ups my respect for you. Hell, if I can, I'll take a look at it whenever you have a testing session up. Ill send you a Page when we get the game up, and you can tell me what you think. |
masterdan are you done yet all iv been playing was some other naruto game a nd whatching air gear this summer plaease hurry
|
Moderation is important in most games.
There's nothing else to say. |
Miles_Edgeworth wrote:
The real problem, in my view, with "empowered staff members" (I refuse to use the term GM, sorry), is how to confront them when they go apeshit. It's basically the same as to how to confront borderline trolls. When the automated systems don't do their job, then the players just report the offender to the forums. Problem solved. Of course, proof would need to be presented so some guy couldn't go "OHMYGOD THIS COCK-CHEEK JUST BEAT ME 5 TIMES IN A COMPLETELY FAIR AND BALANCED FIGHT! BAN!" |
Rebirth revised and legends reborn are two good examples of rips that are getting alot of players and attention.nbolts and db rebirth rips have filled up the anime guild with crap.Gms do nothing but cause trouble since when you pick a group of gms, one of em or a few of em usually cause trouble while the ones are quiet,afk, or help some peeps then go back to their business.As long the creater of the game is active enough to take care of complaints and problems on the game then theres no need of em.I've seen alot of gms bug abuse,abuse powers for ingame friends,and ban for just plain not liking people.Gms actually can cause the game to go downhill and discourage players from playing the game with this kind of crap.In my opinion I think Masterdan is 100% correct about gms and has made the right choice for not havin any on his naruto game GOA.
Disturbed Puppy wrote: Yeah, I'll give you kudos, they aren't needed, and the rips need originality. But, if they're going to be original, they'll normally start from scratch(using your game as a perfect example). Most of the people on BYOND using ripped sources aren't creative, and just want credit for little if any work. and as much as I dislike you as a person(seriously, calm down), you putting out an original(well, it's a Naruto game, but it's as original as Naruto Games on BYOND go) game really ups my respect for you. Hell, if I can, I'll take a look at it whenever you have a testing session up. |
i read all your speech, but i didn't read all the replies i'm kinda lazy at reading english, i'm saving some of my reading english to harry potter 7, but i do agree with you and if we have(when i say we i mean all anime byond games) a good system preventing stupid people there's no need of GMs. One more time good job!
i'd like to talk to you someday, i wanna make a fun game and i want your help since you're such an amazing coder, still working on the idea, add me on msn my email is on goa forum. |
My thoughts on this would be that gms may usually not be needed but if you ever happen to have to leave for a week a day an hour even that leaves your game and its players alone with just a computer system to protect them from spam verbal abuse and other things like that....So I guess that I think that gms may not be needed due to some problems with their own characteristics but I would trust a human being any time over a mechanical A.I.
|
Um..i really need ur help..i wanna make a naruto game but idk a thing about how to make one so if u could help me my email is [email protected] plz help me thank and goodbye
|