Sorry to double post, but ALSO, you're counting Super Saiyan as something EVERY SAIYAN could do. In thousands of years no one was able to turn Super Saiyan, until Goku came along. Any of the Saiyans that went Super Saiyan after that don't count because the Freiza Arc was supposed to be the end of the series.
Honestly, after the Freiza Arc everything goes to hell and Super Saiyan is no longer something that's rare, or special. Also, Guru himself had stated, BEFORE Picollo fused with Nail, that had he and Kami not split he cold have RIPPED FREIZA APART with no problems.
That's wrong, the Freeza arc was not supposed to be the end of the series, the Kid buu saga was. GT marks the end of where the creator gave up interest in continuing.
Also if you remember correctly, Lord Slug was supposedly the strongest class of Nameks, Kami and Piccolo's fusion was so strong only because of Piccolo's training. And remember that a false super saiyan evenly matched this class. Look up the Dragonball Dictionary (if they have an online one). Dodoria didn't get much stronger over time, if you remember correctly Vegeta even said something to him along the lines of him sitting on his fat ass before he blew him up. As far as I'm concerned, the show only got better after the Freeza saga. Most of that saga was boring until the actual Freeza fight, the Android saga was more entertaining, and the Buu saga was definitely the best. It managed to bring back the original feel that dragonball lost once it passed onto Z. Saiyans are the strongest race hands down, and that's how it was supposed to be. | |
Ahem
1) There's no evidence whatsoever that Nameks are naturally all that strong... And actually, there's quite a lot of evidence to the contrary... We only see two examples of any Nameks that really made something special out of themselves: Piccolo and Lord Slug are the only exceptionally powerful members of the entire race... Sure, some Nameks have magical powers (the highest of which being the ability of members of a certain clan to create Dragonballs and the wish-granting dragons), some are trained to be fighters (like Nail and some others shown during the Frieza Saga), and they probably are on average a bit stronger than humans (even from birth), but the difference is minimal and they're still firmly in the shadow of the Saiyans... Basically, on a scale from 1 to 10, with humans at 1, Nameks might get 2 (maybe only 1.5), but Saiyans firmly get 10 (maybe 11 or 12)... They outclass everyone else by a huge margin... Nameks might be slightly above humans, but the difference is negligible when compared to the jump to the Saiyan level... 2) Going back to our (only!) two exceptional Nameks, Piccolo and Slug, we can very easily explain their powers... Both of them have had many, many years to train, and both of them have been infused with the restorative powers of wish-granted youth (Piccolo's came to him indirectly... Piccolo Daimaoh wished for youth, increasing his power, which was then passed on to the Piccolo we know when Daimaoh spit him out as an egg) 3) The Frieza Saga was Toriyama's original ending point... He only went on with the rest of the series after he was talked into it (perhaps even forced by some contract clause or something) So he hadn't planned any of the rest out ahead of time... The first and only Super Saiyan transformation and triumph over the evil tyrant that killed the hero's species was supposed to be the climactic conclusion to the story... But again, or whatever reason, Toriyama was convinced to pick his pen back up and continue... He had painted himself into a corner, so to speak (because serial superhero comics have to always go up in threat and power, like successively harder levels in a video game), and this is why we have all of the other transformations and such... The bad guys had to keep getting stronger, so the heroes had to do so as well to finish them off... But yeah, originally, he never intended anything past the death of Frieza... And in fact, I suspect that the entire Garlic Jr. "Saga" filler was to stall the anime while he wrote more manga (by that point, the anime was almost right on top of the manga) | |
Yeah the Garlic Jr saga and the Trunks fighting freeza are two fillers in the anime that were made to wait for more manga. I knew that he intended on ending it at Freeza's death but for some reason (as you stated) he continued writing all the way to the end of the Djinn Boo manga, which is so great because it mocks the entirety of the show.
I'd say nameks on average definately outclass humans in the show, generally all of the Z-warriors at the time were stronger than the entire planet, but comparing planets there is a huge leap. | |
As far as Namek's being godly powerful, I was talking about the clan Kami came from. Not the regular pussy Dende Namek's we know today. Learn to read. Also, there were how many years between Bardock fighting Dodoria and Vegeta fighting Dodoria? Firstly, you didn't mention anything about clans in your post. Secondly, you have no proof that "clans" or actually villages had different abilities/strength. And finally, most of the Nameks were crushed, quite easily I might add, by Frieza's HENCHMEN. Which implies that most of the villages, or clans as you weirdly put it, were actually relatively weak. Oh and let's not forget how weak King Piccolo was relative to a THIRD CLASS SAIYAN like Raditz. Dodoria got MUCH stronger over that time, it's not like he sat on his fat ass doing nothing for twenty years. No, bull. You don't have any evidence for that. The Naked Ninja says something that counters what you said, but I can't verify it. But the fact remains that you're making that up. Everything else I stated was fact, not argument. Everything else you stated was more or less unnecessary to state and therefore I didn't even bother quoting it. Sorry to double post, but ALSO, you're counting Super Saiyan as something EVERY SAIYAN could do. In thousands of years no one was able to turn Super Saiyan, until Goku came along. Any of the Saiyans that went Super Saiyan after that don't count because the Freiza Arc was supposed to be the end of the series. Ok fine, if you want to be all annoying, how about we try Oozaru Vegeta (when fighting form 4 Frieza) vs a Namek? And just to be fair, since we are using the prince here, let's make it versus their strongest Namek - Nail. Or how about Oozaru Gohan when fighting Frieza form 2 (after seeing Krillin almost killed by Frieza) versus a Namek? Honestly, after the Freiza Arc everything goes to hell and Super Saiyan is no longer something that's rare, or special. Also, Guru himself had stated, BEFORE Picollo fused with Nail, that had he and Kami not split he cold have RIPPED FREIZA APART with no problems. And like I stated, Guru had only seen Freiza FORM 1. Frieza form 4, even at 1%, was immensely more powerful than form 1. And Frieza form 4 at 100% was 100 times stronger than that. Learn to read. I physically cannot believe you're arguing that Nameks are stronger than Saiyans. And I'd also like to point out how you've not managed to take apart any of my arguments. | |
As far as the clan goes, re-watch the episodes that explain Kami's coming to earth. It confirms my statements.
Theres no way Dodoria would be the EXACT same as he was twenty years ago. Working under Freiza, he would have HAD to fight at some points. Just comes with the job. Again, I'm quite sure that Guru was insanely intelligent and would have KNOWN Freiza was hiding most of his power. It's just the way Guru is. | |
Dixon wrote:
As far as the clan goes, re-watch the episodes that explain Kami's coming to earth. It confirms my statements. The Dragon Family was more the only "clan" ever really mentioned. Theres no way Dodoria would be the EXACT same as he was twenty years ago. Working under Freiza, he would have HAD to fight at some points. Just comes with the job. Not the exact same, but as far as Vegeta new he said Dodoria was standing by Freeza's side while he got stronger. And in the Bardok special, Vegeta was a lower power than King Vegeta at the time and one of the other saiyans stated that Bardok was almost as strong as the King. Again, I'm quite sure that Guru was insanely intelligent and would have KNOWN Freiza was hiding most of his power. It's just the way Guru is. He may have known that Freeza was hiding his power, but he couldn't have Anticipated that freeza had three very powerful transformations. Guru was smart and telepathic with his children, but no proof that he was psychic. | |
As far as Namek's being godly powerful, I was talking about the clan Kami came from. Not the regular pussy Dende Namek's we know today. Learn to read. Also, there were how many years between Bardock fighting Dodoria and Vegeta fighting Dodoria?
Dodoria got MUCH stronger over that time, it's not like he sat on his fat ass doing nothing for twenty years.
Everything else I stated was fact, not argument.