Jp wrote:

Burden of proof, Solbadguy.

But I'll give you some stuff:

This is the big passage from Josephus:
"Now there was about this time, Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works - a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was the Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named after him, are not extinct at this day."

Which seems to provide startling corrobation.

Except, this guy was writing for the romans. Who, at the time, were not particularly fond of Christianity. That passage is far, far too glowing to have been written by anyone with roman patronage, particularly someone who still had roman patronage afterwards. Furthermore, Josephus was writing for a roman audience, and they wouldn't have a clue what 'the Christ' meant. He doesn't use the term anywhere else, either.

There are various other reasons, but basically, the passage is clearly an interpolation.

The Gospels mention the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem. This happened in 70. Conclusion - the Gospels are older then 70.

Looking into it, Tacitus was writing around 115 - which is still far, far too late. What were his sources? Probably contemporary Christian sources - because there's no real evidence that the romans kept detailed records of all their crucifixions, and Rome had burnt down in the meantime.

Conclusion - there are no first-hand accounts of Jesus' life.

Actually no, the burden of proof is on you.

At that time period there were hundreds if not thousands of people claiming to be the Messiah. Where are all their records? THEY MUST NOT HAVE EXISTED LOLOLOLOLOL.

No, the fact that we have a surviving testament to his existence in the bible and Josephus' and other accounts makes it hundreds of times more probable that he existed than he didn't. At that time he was just one in a million(until Constantine[?] adopted his religion), any writings about him should lead any logical thinker without bias to realize that this guy probably existed.

No, the burden of proof is on you, it's much more probable that he existed than he didn't. By your logic billions of people didn't exist because we have no records of them. Go ahead and try to prove that the bible is one giant conspiracy theory by a bunch of authors who didn't actually believe what they wrote. Prove to me why they wouldn't give up their conspiracy after they were persecuted by the lions and thrown in the Coliseum, if they were making the shit up.

Burden of proof is on us, what a load of bullshit. Prove he didn't exist.

ah does it really matter?

Christianity has enough flaws without needing to prove whether or not Christ actually existed.

There probably was a guy like Jesus, who was just very wise and knew how to trick people into thinking he was amazing. Stories tend to get exaggerated.

I thought they had dug up some stuff a few years ago, like pointing to a Mary, Jesus, and Joseph. Not too sure though. But then again those were very popular names at the time.

uh, lots of us go into a casket which is then put into a concrete vault under fucking ground

I'd be surprised if the idiot even knew what a caste is.

Pascal's wager - That's the argument "If you believe in god and there is one you're fine, don't believe in god and there is one you're screwed, therefore its a better bet to believe in God" - is inherently flawed.

For starters - there is an infinite variety of gods. And lots of them want to be exclusive. You can't believe in them all - who to pick?

Furthermore, the probability of some gods existing is 0, in which case the reward for believing in them is irrelevant.

Further-furthermore, any god worth worshipping wouldn't condemn you to infinite torture for justified scepticism.

There is proof that Jesus Christ lived, there just is no proof about the "miricles he done".

These quotes are some of the many reasons why I am starting to utterly despise christianity. Especially the fundamentalists...

"If a homosexual youth reads this post they should be aware that they are heading for hell if they don't repent and put their faith and trust in Jesus Christ. That is real love"

"Hey dumb shit... Go outside tonight and look up into the fucking sky. Now really try very hard to explain both "infinite space" and "eternal time". You can't do it can you? Where is your so-called "evidence" to explain these mysteries? And you dare to deny the existence of a Creator? You pathetic asshole! Now get on your fucking knees and ask God to forgive you for mocking Him."

"Athiest: I can't see god, therefore he doesn't exist

Me to Athiest: I can't see your brain, therefore you don't have one."

"Thats why JESUS is so amazing,he gives you a choice!

Choose JESUS and eternal life or hell."

"Those on the Evolution side use their education to bully those who didn't study science. They think they are cute, but they really come across as bullies throwing around scientific terms those on the Creationist side do not understand. "

"You might look up the term "monotheist" sometime. I don't think anyone other than an atheist has faith in more than one "God".

"Because the Harry Potter books are a powerful lure for children. Children should be studying the bible instead of reading stories that can be percieved as paganism. I think it might even break a commandment if you take it far enough."

"Insofar as the native Americans are concerned, let us not forget that during the great flood of Noah's day, ALL, except those 8 who were aboard the ark, were destroyed! This means that the native Americans were the direct descendants of Noah, and at some point in time their forefathers were exposed to the TRUTH which would have saved them, had they elected, of their own volition, to heed and obey."



"Have you ever seen the horror of the suffering which Hitler inflicted upon the Jews during World War II? Have you ever paused to reflect upon WHY God would allow such pain, suffering and death to be inflicted upon these descendants of Abraham? Well, I have, and each time I see TV footage which shows their efflictions I am reminded of the words of their ancestors, who many years ago, at the time when they cried out for Pilate to impose the sentence of death upon our Lord, they explicitly stated: "Let his blood be upon us, AND ON OUR CHILDREN." (Matthew 27:25) Is this not further evidence which supports my assertion that the sins of our forefathers are heaped upon their descendants? After all, it was their words which condemned them, and we see the results of their rejection of our Lord being meted out upon their descendants. Hitler just happened to be the instruments through which such destruction came."

"God creates Earth, Man, Animals, etc. in one week. Yet the Book makes no mention of the dinosaurs. Perhaps they could be included under the classification of animals, but even if that is true there is still a problem. From what we can tell, dinosaurs existed 230 million years ago, while humans have only existed for 200,000 years. So how could both have been created in the same week?

Here are some possible explanations I have come up with. I don't necessarily believe these either, but they would fix things.

1. Satan created the fossils to cause controversy over the Bible's credibility.

2. The fossils are actually no more than bone like rocks.

3. A week span during the creation of Earth was much longer than what we now record as a week. For example, perhaps each day then would be equal to 32 million years by how we measure time and after that, days became the length they are today.

4. Scientists who study fossils are wrong in their calculations and the dinosaur fossils are indeed no older than human fossils.

So what do you guys think?"