What do I need to get started in the game development world?

ID:31695
 
Jun 17 2007, 4:49 pm
Okay, so I finially have a job that can support me financially, so now I need some help deciding on what I need to start developing games for consoles.

I'm going to make my first console game for the 360, seeing as I think it would be the easiest.
So first I am going to need a 360.

From what I have heard, I am going to need to know C++ and/or C#, and it has been awhile since I have touched those, so I will also need some books on those. That is where I need some help -
360 probably uses DirectX, so what are some good books for C++/C# game programming with DirectX? Or some awesome online tuts anyone would know about? I'm googling for some , but I wanna know what you guys would reccomend, not whoever pays google the most so their stuff gets served up first in a search <_<.

I have apx 280 bucks to spend after buying the 360, which reminds me, does the Core system come with a harddrive?
Jun 17 2007, 5:06 pm
You might want to check out XNA, if you specifically have the 360 in mind (and/or PC).
Jun 17 2007, 5:12 pm
Slurm wrote:
You might want to check out XNA.

I was looking into that, but then I remember awhile back while watching AOTS, that microsoft was releasing a game development thing for people to make their own games for the 360 console, but it would cost money to make and play the games, and download them. I just wanna get into the biz, so I am trying to figure out what I would need to make a game for the 360. I'm trying to figure out what developers use, so I can tinker and stuff.

Jun 17 2007, 5:21 pm
Dead_Demon wrote:
I was looking into that, but then I remember awhile back while watching AOTS, that microsoft was releasing a game development thing for people to make their own games for the 360 console, but it would cost money to make and play the games, and download them. I just wanna get into the biz, so I am trying to figure out what I would need to make a game for the 360. I'm trying to figure out what developers use, so I can tinker and stuff.

XNA is it. What you're talking about is the XNA Creators Club. See this as well.
Jun 17 2007, 5:26 pm
Slurm wrote:
Dead_Demon wrote:
I was looking into that, but then I remember awhile back while watching AOTS, that microsoft was releasing a game development thing for people to make their own games for the 360 console, but it would cost money to make and play the games, and download them. I just wanna get into the biz, so I am trying to figure out what I would need to make a game for the 360. I'm trying to figure out what developers use, so I can tinker and stuff.

XNA is it. What you're talking about is the XNA Creators Club. See this as well.

Ah, okay, that shed some light. Have you used XNA before?
Jun 17 2007, 5:32 pm
Dead_Demon wrote:
Ah, okay, that shed some light. Have you used XNA before?

I've only taken brief looks at it, but from what i've heard from friends, it's a pretty good set of tools to work with.
Jun 17 2007, 5:34 pm
Here are some books I am very interested in as they are high quality:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/registry/wishlist/T1PX10EL2XZM/ 103-1888794-8443003?reveal=all&filter=all&sort=date-added&la yout=standard&x=11&y=10

If you truly want to understand game programming, then I suggest studying a book on game engine design and a book on game math.


The books I currently own:

http://www.amazon.com/ Managed-DirectX-Kick-Start-Programming/dp/0672325969/ ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-1888794-8443003?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1182 132155&sr=8-1

The above book is excellent for learning Direct3D and starting you out with HLSL (High Level Shader Language).

The problem with this book though is its section on networking at the end stinks. It uses the obsolete DirectPlay module instead of System.Net and doesn't explain the core concepts of networking well. But it's great for Direct3D.

http://www.amazon.com/Game-Programming-All-One-Second/dp/ 1598632663/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/ 103-1888794-8443003?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1182132470&sr=1-1

And this above book is an excellent starting point in terms of game programming design. It teaches you how a 3D game works without getting into the nitty gritty, and Kenneth Finney is an excellent writer. This book has some downfalls, though. It is written for Torque Game Engine/Torque Script. If you wanted to use Torque then this book is perfect for you, but Torque costs $150 for Torque Shader Engine and doesn't teach you a truly useful language (You can make a good game with torque but no company is going to hire you for TS and you can't really use the knowledge elsewhere). Torque, however, is multiplatform and can be used with the 360.

Anyways, that book taught me a lot of what I know about how 3D games work.


http://www.amazon.com/Physics-Game-Developers-David-Bourg/ dp/0596000065/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/ 103-1888794-8443003?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1182132985&sr=1-1

This book is nice, but the author expects you to know calculus beforehand. You can easily look up topics you don't know on the internet, though, so it's not too big of an obstical.


As for C# or C++, I learned everything about general programming from my DM experience and the microsoft reference and random internet articals. But I did see some decent C# books on amazon.

If you decide to learn C#, here is my suggestions:

Read all you can from the horses mouth here: http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ kx37x362(VS.80).aspx
Jun 17 2007, 5:40 pm
Kunark wrote:
Here are some books I am very interested in as they are high quality:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/registry/wishlist/T1PX10EL2XZM/ 103-1888794-8443003?reveal=all&filter=all&sort=date-added&la yout=standard&x=11&y=10

If you truly want to understand game programming, then I suggest studying a book on game engine design and a book on game math.


The books I currently own:

http://www.amazon.com/ Managed-DirectX-Kick-Start-Programming/dp/0672325969/ ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-1888794-8443003?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1182 132155&sr=8-1

The above book is excellent for learning Direct3D and starting you out with HLSL (High Level Shader Language).

The problem with this book though is its section on networking at the end stinks. It uses the obsolete DirectPlay module instead of System.Net and doesn't explain the core concepts of networking well. But it's great for Direct3D.

http://www.amazon.com/Game-Programming-All-One-Second/dp/ 1598632663/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/ 103-1888794-8443003?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1182132470&sr=1-1

And this above book is an excellent starting point in terms of game programming design. It teaches you how a 3D game works without getting into the nitty gritty, and Kenneth Finney is an excellent writer. This book has some downfalls, though. It is written for Torque Game Engine/Torque Script. If you wanted to use Torque then this book is perfect for you, but Torque costs $150 for Torque Shader Engine and doesn't teach you a truly useful language (You can make a good game with torque but no company is going to hire you for TS and you can't really use the knowledge elsewhere). Torque, however, is multiplatform and can be used with the 360.

Anyways, that book taught me a lot of what I know about how 3D games work.


http://www.amazon.com/Physics-Game-Developers-David-Bourg/ dp/0596000065/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/ 103-1888794-8443003?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1182132985&sr=1-1

This book is nice, but the author expects you to know calculus beforehand. You can easily look up topics you don't know on the internet, though, so it's not too big of an obstical.


As for C# or C++, I learned everything about general programming from my DM experience and the microsoft reference and random internet articals. But I did see some decent C# books on amazon.

If you decide to learn C#, here is my suggestions:

Read all you can from the horses mouth here: http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ kx37x362(VS.80).aspx


Thanks, I will look into those books and that site.

@Slurm

Do you know if the XNA Tools comes with a 3D map editor?
Jun 17 2007, 5:44 pm
Dead_Demon wrote:
@Slurm

Do you know if the XNA Tools comes with a 3D map editor?

I would doubt that it did (but i'm not 100%), but an easy solution would be to implement a BSP renderer, which works with BSP maps (which then, would allow you to use many different editors).
Jun 17 2007, 5:48 pm
From the MS website:

Xbox 360 Development with Game Studio Express

Developers wishing to target Xbox 360 for game development will need to join the XNA Creators Club. The XNA Creators Club will be a new Xbox Live subscription offering that will provide the additional pieces needed to develop non-commercial XNA Framework-based games on an Xbox 360 retail kit. The subscription program will be open to everyone. There are two subscription options: $99 a year, and $49 for 4 months.
XNA Game Studio Professional

XNA Game Studio Professional is a new offering targeted at the professional game developer. It will contain all the functionality present in XNA Game Studio Express and will add support for tools and services that professional game developers need to ship commercial games built using the XNA Framework on both Windows and Xbox 360 (a membership to the Xbox 360 Registered Developer Program will still be required). A beta release of XNA Game Studio Professional is currently targeted for 2007.




In other words, you can sell commercial games with XNA on windows, but you have to get XNA Pro to sell commercial games (or allow people to play them without a subscription) for the 360. They haven't released XNA Pro yet but it uses all of XNA Express already.
Jun 17 2007, 5:49 pm
Slurm wrote:
Dead_Demon wrote:
@Slurm

Do you know if the XNA Tools comes with a 3D map editor?

I would doubt that it did (but i'm not 100%), but an easy solution would be to implement a BSP renderer, which works with BSP maps (which then, would allow you to use many different editors).

I can tell I am going to have alot of studying ahead of me, because the only expeirience I have with BSPs is with modding Halo 2, I have no clue how to impliment one @@
Jun 17 2007, 5:51 pm
Dead_Demon wrote:
I can tell I am going to have alot of studying ahead of me, because the only expeirience I have with BSPs is with modding Halo 2, I have no clue how to impliment one @@

Yeah, lots of learning if you have no experience with it already. I would suggest starting with the basics and slowly moving up. There is plenty of documentation and research publically available on nearly any subject in 3D that you can imagine.
Jun 17 2007, 5:54 pm
Slurm wrote:
Dead_Demon wrote:
I can tell I am going to have alot of studying ahead of me, because the only expeirience I have with BSPs is with modding Halo 2, I have no clue how to impliment one @@

Yeah, lots of learning if you have no experience with it already. I would suggest starting with the basics and slowly moving up. There is plenty of documentation and research publically available on nearly any subject in 3D that you can imagine.


Im think I am gonna hold off on making games for the 360 or any other console until I have a good grasp on 3D games. I'm gonna mess around with the books Kunark suggested and stuff first.
Hmm, didn't think it would be so dang confuzzling!
Jun 18 2007, 9:43 am
No, the Core System does not come with a hard drive. If you want to save your games you have to buy a 512 mb hard drive for $50. OR not be stupid, and get the 12 GB hard drive and wireless controller for $100 more than the core system. You get a WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY value, and save money (in the long run).
Jun 18 2007, 11:29 pm
The coding for games on some Xbox 360 games you can find the torrent sites, you might have to dig.