24% (9)
75% (28)In a role playing aspect there is always a statistical system in place to better your character in the way to further them in the game. Most having simple stats such as Strength, Defense, Speed and Intelligence.
In a pre-determined game, the system would simply level up the character for you, and give you an increase depending on the character, in most cases, the increase being a random number predetermined depending on the level of the character, or the characters profession.
In a player-determined game, the system would level up the character and give them statistical points that they can distributed in to their character in whichever way they choose, allowing for a much more customizable character.
As a preference of opinions, which is the more prefered way for a game to be played, and why is it that you would rather have that system implimented? Do you prefer your character to get better and not have to deal with the statistical end, or would you much rather have more control over your character, and which end of his/her stats increase, and at what rate? Would you rather be more involved in the characters build, or have the character build itself through the story?
Apr 25 2007, 9:02 am
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SSJ_Crono
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I am a fan of pre-determined because then the game simply comes down to skill, and not how well you distributed your points.
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I prefer a mix of both, myself. A game that gives you your stats based on how you want them.
An example would be that the game would give you a random number of 2-4 points in each skill, and whichever one you are 'building' would get 3-5 instead. For some reason the post removed the title, I had to fix that, and it added another - in the poll. But you can forgive that, hopefully. | |
Well, a mix of both is good too, but then there is a chance of messing up your character. In World of Warcraft you get your normal levels, and then a few points to buy/upgrade skills with.
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Many games with player-determined stats run into a huge flaw: that there's a 'right' and a 'wrong' way to distribute your stats. While ideally, things should balance out in the end, this is rarely the case. Instead, you have everyone using the same strategy to maximize gains. So even though players "have a choice", they really don't. That's not to say that you can't make a successful character by distributing your stats the 'wrong' way, but, everything else being equal, you won't be able to measure up to someone who did it the 'right' way.
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I'm generally content with predetermined stat gains. I think it makes the game simpler to play and make without having to overly worry about minute character management, since if you let players place their own stats you may end up having to balance the game around the extremes of every class, which only discourages more average builds.
I don't think randomly generated stat gains can be called predetermined at all, though. "You're going to gain 2 strength this level, 3 strength on the next" sounds more like it. If you're going to go with random stat generation, PLEASE put some sort of leash on it. When it comes to leveling up, nothing is more aggravating to a player than finding out that Lady Luck took a large, steaming, chunky shit all over his character. This happened to me when I tried to play Final Fantasy Legacy once; I was a LV40 mage with the spell power just below that of an AVERAGE LV20. I probably had one of the highest strength stats for my level, as though that's useful for anything when your character isn't meant to melee at all. Other players told me that I was unfortunately SOL and that my best option would be deleting and starting my character over, so I thought "fuck that" and quit. It was stupid. >:( I think the game has been dead for a while now, but I liked how Dragon Warrior Quest handled random stat gains. The farther away your stats went from what was average for your level, the more your level ups were auto-buffed/nerfed to keep yourself in line. Say...you're supposed to gain on average, 5 strength per level. One level you may get 4, 3, or a really crappy 1. Your next level would see you gaining more than usual to compensate. In the end, stats were still minorly random, but still fair in general. Edit: One tiny benefit to player-determined stat gains is giving the character the option to make gimmick builds. In the hands of a bored player, that can make for some fruity combinations. In FF:THG, I did this by focusing on -nothing- but my max MP stat. My overall spell power was pretty bad, but I could cast nearly forever in a fight. | |
Fixed stats gain is better for balance, but allows less room for actual role-playing to some degree because my level 5 fighter is exactly like yours, etc. I like customization. But in an MMORPG, this will always boil down to what works best, then everyone will do that. Of course, if the game offers a few different combos (IE if you want to be a tank, do this, a mage, do this, a thief, do this, etc.) it isn't so bad. Of course with optimal paths, one can question why even bothering with player determined stats, but I would offer that this is a design issue- there shouldn't be such clear optimal paths.
I hate random stat gain for exactly the reason Sarm points out. The DWQ solution simps a simple but elegant one that I really like. | |
SSJ_Crono wrote:
I am a fan of pre-determined because then the game simply comes down to skill, and not how well you distributed your points. Couldn't how well you distribute your points be classed as a skill in it's own? | |
Tiberath wrote:
SSJ_Crono wrote: Yes... on top of that, defeating a character of a certain stat build that is strong against your own could be the ultimate test of skill... the key is balance, all specific builds should have something they are strong and weak against, but still be beatable by the weaker builds. This is why I prefer the player-determined system because it allows for greater customisation of your character. However I think there should always be a way to replace your stats/skills by paying gold(or whatever currency your world uses - it wouldn't be cheap though!) this way players get a chance to try out different builds to find out what suits them best. This could help keep the economy in balance too. | |
Stolen Lands does that fairly well, they allow you to refund any skill or stat point for free up to level 15, then after that you can still refund but it costs you to do so. So if you don't like your character, you can just change it. It allows for you to try out several different skills at the start without the worry of making new characters or having 1 skill level in every skill.
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I like making my own decision, even if it's the bad one. I like to use characters who are generally fast. So a thief or a ninja class is my choice of pick. I would probably put it all on agility. I know it stupid but I do love the speed.
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I can't remember what game(s)it was but I once came across a system that I was a very big fan of - predetermined stat gains with an emphesis on stat use. So for example if a character spent a lot of time attacking their strength and agility would gain the lions share and other skills would suffer (vice versa for other actions). Im not sure if any BYOND game has used this yet but it sure would be interesting to see.
- GunRunner | |
My main reason for disliking player determined stat gains in MMO games is that you're usually an outcast if you don't use what's accepted as the 'best' build.
Later when group questing is a bigger part of the game you also get stuck using your stat points to increase only your ability to do your job in the group. That sort of forces you to either only play solo or only in a group. If you choose a solo build the groups will shun you, if you choose a group build you're useless without four other people to do the other jobs. With a system where gains are out of the players control you can at least give them three or four potential jobs in a group. You still end up with the universally accepted role for the class but it still a lot easier to find groups that are willing to take you on in the other positions. Best of all the build works for both solo and group activities. | |