Regressia

IainPeregrine wrote:

What would help me most would be to know at what point you feel experience gains and monster difficulty parted ways. It would also help if you'd tell me your character's level and skills - having missed a skill or two along the way could make the game almost impossible without power leveling. If it's not too much trouble, I'd also like to know what gear you have equipped.

I'm currently level 27 and using a spiked hammer, the cursed shield (for def which is essential; I heal often to counteract it), heavy armor, and any of the charms based on where I am (Medal for all-purpose).

Skills: heal, light, open, fast, fire, freeze, pierce, wind

I likely missed something with the apparition, and I found her corpse, but I can't find a comb for the life of me.
I also haven't been able to kill the poltergeist yet, though I am probably close.

Monster difficulty starts to get crazy after Eastarbor.
I'm going to throw out some numbers here, using about 5-10 monsters each for averages/impressions. Crit (c) = special ability; (w) = "Weak" + strongest attack.

monster .... dmg/hit . crit .... exp
Dwarf .......... 1 ..... 1 ..... 40
Lion ........... 1 .. 20(c) .... 55
eagle .......... 1 ..... 1 ..... 50
gnoll .......... 1 ..... 3 ..... 60
monk ........... 1 .. 90(w) .... 75
rakshasa ...... 12 .. 60(w) .... 70
Panther ....... 19 .. 70(c) ... 150
claymore ....... 8 . 50%(c) ... 100

What this table tells me in that the risk never seems to match the reward. All of these monsters give the same exp within a factor of 4 (which is not a significant difference), yet the differences in difficulty are staggering. The harder monsters take MUCH more time to deal with due to healing both during and after battle.

In a typical fight with a dwarf, I may lose 2HP max and in two turns gain 40 exp. In a typical fight with a Panther, I usually get mauled a couple of times and if I'm not lucky will die within the first few seconds when I've started with near full health. If I do survive, I have to waste time healing myself and restoring MP which is itself tedious when you're required to do it every single battle.

My last level took ~7000 exp. That's almost 200 dwarves, or 47 panthers. The odds of surviving 47 panthers in a row is zero, even with restoring to full health after every battle and using Fast as the first move every round. And it's even more discouraging when I consider that, even if I do grind for another hour to gain my next level, I probably won't get more than a few HP/MP and likely no stat gains; the incentive to level is near zero when grinding for an hour is likely to get me nothing in the way of stat gains.

I left out some of the other monsters like Beastmen, Cyclops, etc., but these all fall into the same category. Everything after Eastarbor is needlessly difficult and gives crap for rewards. Even after beating the first tower, I still go back to Eastarbor to train because it's stupid to waste time/money/items trying to survive anywhere else. If every monster in the game yields the same reward despite the vast differences in difficulty, then progression gets thrown out the window.

One thing I've been considering is changing the penalty on death such that you keep some amount of experience, but lose any gold, items, or quests. I'd appreciate your feedback on this.

I'm fine with the current system of death = final as long as death isn't so frequent or random. When I mean random, if a monster usually hits me for 12HP but at random can hit me for 70, and it just happens to hit me 2X with 70s before I get a turn to heal myself, that just feels cheap. Weak is especially bad in this regard. Some spells are similarly frustrating but to a lesser extent since it is possible to counteract them (sometimes) with elemental gear.

edit: 7000 exp is an estimate based on infrequent glances at the Status page. An indication of how much exp you need to level and/or when you gained your last level would be a really nice feature.

About your stat gains, this much I can answer myself.

Vitality and Intelligence are directly linked to hp/mp, thus, when you gain a point in them, your totals go up much higher than normal. You notice this effect after mixing your equipment and charms, play with the Bracelet you get in the first town, it's a prime example of it.

The Disease thing is definitely a rough spot, however, you eventually learn how to combat all negative effect spells. Disease wears off over a certain number of steps, as well.

Unfortunately I can't remember anything about Railoah, or I would advise, and I don't know what that necklace does either.

It's not at all "levelling up too many times"
You're going to gain points based on random chance to begin with. (I think, not entirely sure) I'm level 31 myself, chances are I've played further than most people, and my stats are not fantastic in any way.
(97000 experience is not a treat)

That said, I might have..250 hp? I'd have to open the game to see, but it's probably around that. You learn to work with what you're given, and I certainly was not given too much vitality.

As for the disease. Everything I know about this game I worked out on my own. This is not to say I know everything, not by a long shot. But I got diseased a few times, and managed to survive long enough for it to wear off by walking 'round.

It's not the monster's job to tell you what it's going to do to you, either. :P I suppose a random NPC could warn a player of impending diseases, but if I can learn to roll with it, anyone can. (I suck at this sort of thing, suprise is my worst enemy)

Also, I imagine you've seen the defense lowering monsters as well. That too, is counteracted by the same spell that cures poison and disease. However, certain enemies will simply recast the spells once removed, almost immediately. You get led into a game of who can cast longer, and you don't always win that fight.

The point I guess I'm trying to make is I guess save as often as you can, and if something isn't working, then try something else. I'm not playing till Iain's got the new update that fixes Omen, regardless if it's just a tiny thing or not.

You're quite right, I've not played a game that is as incredibly cruel as to force you to lose stats from an enemy attack. This doesn't mean you need to assume that every game is going to turn out that way, though. Especially if you lose half your hp from one spell, were those games really so bad as to screw over any chance of progress like that? (Not sarcastic, I've not played them so I am curious.)

I don't see why you keep saying you have to start over because of crappy levels. If you're going to just save close to a level and then keep re-fighting it until you get a nice gain, isn't that a bit cheap on the system? As far as I know, you honestly gain stats on a set basis, but again, I have no knowledge on how that works. Any stat augmenting I've done is charm based.

Dunno how much time you think I have per day, but it isn't much, as I hold down a job too, like most people with their own cash flow. I'm well aware it's a grinder's game, and that it takes time to do it right.

The defense lowerers..honestly, a lot of enemies do it, but I can't remember the name of the spell off hand. I think it's like.. "Break" or something. Anyway, if you see that, your best option is a quick murdering or escape, because it essentially cuts your defense to nothing. Can only be countered with the stat healing spell I mentioned, which I have also forgot the name of.

Documentation spoils a game in some respects, unless things are intentionally left out. And if they are, it's the writer's job to decide what gets left out and what gets added in, and then you might even feel slighted because the info you wanted isn't in it. Still, I agree some kinda basic manual could serve, especially if as many people reacted this way to Disease as you did.

Generally I don't quit and reload, being stubborn as hell, I'll fight to the death and figure out what can be done about it, if anything. Course, this gets you outright killed more often than not, but it helped me a few times, such as discovering Disease wears off over steps.

I didn't mean to come off high handed or anything, but really, I'm quite bad at unforgiving games, I'd probably ragequit at the ones you mentioned. So when I say that if I can do it, anyone can do it, it should be noted that I see myself at the bottom tier of this type of game.

I would expect the one reason I've done as much as I did here was because I was able to save and fight bosses over and over until I figured out what I was doing wrong, and fixed it. Everything about the ways I handled it was awkward, quite sure of that. I forced myself to abandon my normal play style just to win against certain enemies, but..well, yeah.

Again, sorry if you took something the wrong way, but I meant no offense. I don't mind chatting about the game, in fact, I love to talk about it, but I don't know anyone else who's even playing it at the moment.

EDIT: For kicks I loaded up the game, and I guess I was further along than my last screenshot indicated. Level 33, 132000 experience, in my all-purpose gear, no stat is above 19 (str), except for attack and defense. 233 hp, 206 mp. And I say this is actually decent enough, though I fully intend to grind more out sometime, because Omen was HORRIBLE. Ah, and the restoring spell is simply "Cleanse", costs 6 mp. It fixes lowered defense, poison, disease, I think it would also fix lowered speed too.

Ideally one could just come here as well though, eh? :P

Question for Iain if he reads this anytime soon:
Would it be possible to get like..the title screen theme? I love to listen to it, but keeping up the game in the background just for that seems a bit much.

I'm afraid I still don't understand why you have to start all over. There is no "choosing" with any sort of bonus point system that I am aware of. I never got to choose what I wanted from a level, I just got to take what was given to me. I think maybe you might have misunderstood me when I said to play around with the Bracelet charm.

All I meant by that was to check your hp before and after equipping it, to see the differences that one point of vitality can bring.

Incidentally, I am fairly sure the effect of Vit and Int become more pronounced the higher level you are, because that one point isn't worth nearly as much at the beginning as it is toward the end.

And, I wholeheartedly agree about that, the experience could stand a kick in the pants late game. Gold becomes less and less of an issue, though, even taking curatives into consideration. Maybe it's because of my equipment..

Ehergiz wrote:

I'm afraid I still don't understand why you have to start all over. There is no "choosing" with any sort of bonus point system that I am aware of. I never got to choose what I wanted from a level, I just got to take what was given to me. I think maybe you might have misunderstood me when I said to play around with the Bracelet charm.

I may be mistaken, but as I recall, stat gains are not randomized at levelup. That is, when I gained a level, reloaded, and regained the level again, the stat gains were exactly the same. Maybe it was just coincidence, but my impression is that if there is any randomization, it probably occurs when the character is created.

The reason he says starting over is the only option is because if you aren't aware that accessories effect your stats, and your stats effect HP/MP gains, then you've shot yourself in the foot and can never recover. You can't simply gain more levels because leveling is too tedious (especially if you're weaker than you should be). You need every stat gain you can get from the very beginning because gains are cumulative.

Now that I have this information, I too will be restarting the game. when I have time for it that is.

Sorry to not reply to this for so long. For some reason, this post wasn't showing up as "unread" for me. I'm planning to address as many of these points as I can pretty soon now. I plan to release a major update in mid July, maybe as soon as June, as a sort of six-month re-release. Sorry to push up the deadline for certain features for anyone who I told the a fix might come sooner, but I figured it would be better to have everything updated at once, seeing as how all the changes work to balance all the others.

I'd like to get some myths out of the way now, though, so that you can enjoy the game more. First, equipping items does not change your stats long term. If you gain a level while wearing the bracelet, this doesn't permanently change your vitality. Vitality (and the other stats) are calculated based on level, and then other enchantments (spells, status effects, equipment) are added. You can play the entire game with a bracelet on and have the exact same HP as someone who just put it on at the end of the game, granted that your level and other equipment are the same.

Disease, like poison and weak, is an enchantment that a night in the inn, or a "cleanse" or "null" spell should cure. (In fact, simply ending a battle should cure weakness). If the inn isn't curing Disease, then this is something I need to change. Please let me know. Both Disease and Weak have been toned down in the update, and I'm thinking of removing poison (seeing as how there's no notification of poison's effects, and it's not used very often).

More documentation is coming. My biggest job has been the creation of html documents with this info.

Would it be possible to get like..the title screen theme? I love to listen to it, but keeping up the game in the background just for that seems a bit much.

I've actually sent several people all the music files all zipped up. I had no clue the music would be this popular, especially considering it was the first music I'd ever composed, and by the time I was done I absolutely hated it all >:| That being said, the title screen wasn't composed by me... If you want the .zip, just send me an email requesting it (iainperegrine at gmail). Without the email, I'm sure that I'll forget to get it out to you. I have sooo much BYOND stuff on my plate right now.

Edit: I forgot to mention that stat gains are not random at any point. Everyone will gain the same levels at the same experience totals, and everyone will get the same stat gains at those levels. If I remember correctly, you get a vitality point every ten levels, a strength point every four, an intelligence point every 2, and I forget how often you get agility.

---

One of my primary goals when making Regressia was to make a HARD game, one that lived up to the phase "Nintendo Hard" that we used back in the day. (Sadly, "Nintendo Hard" would have the complete opposite meaning these days). In doing so, I went overboard on some things. This is partially the result of the testing team I chose. Future projects will have members of the BYOND community in the testing group.

It is my opinion that monster difficulty scales nicely throughout the game (with some notable problem monsters, such as anything that uses weak), but that exp gains do not scale properly at all. I am being much more generous with this next release.

As a final note, I'm preparing a "Regressia Gaidan" as a thank you for all of you who bought the game prior to this release. If I can get it done, it will be another, very small, game using the same Regressia map, monsters, items, etc., but with a new "character" and question. We're talking really small game here. I'll probably also make it available to anyone else who wants to pay a small fee.

Please know that I am still supporting Regressia actively, and I appreciate your support and feedback. I just get wrapped up in "Get Something Done" events and that sort of thing...

Thanks for all the feedback. As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, I hope to address many of these issues in the next release, which I plan to make in early July. Unfortunately, Some of the issues you brought up, such as being able to save anywhere, may not be feasible for a long time to come, simply because they require a fundamental change to the way the game is built.

Neblim wrote:

One minor issue I want to ask is, why must the ticket to sail somewhere by ship has to disappear if I use it by accident? Why can't I get a "Cannot use here" message?

I just tried using all the tickets, and I didn't find any of them that deleted without setting sail. Could you let me know which ticket it is that is doing this. Any other information on this bug would be helpful.

Having said all that, I will say I like your game, thus I bought the subscription to it. However, these are some flaws that keep me from being able / wanting to play it over long periods of time.

Thanks for the subscription! What I've learned from this experience is that I'm a video game masochist, and what I think is fun, other people think is torture. I hope you'll find this next release much more fun, and much less tiresome.