I'm not going to post my IP for obvious reasons, but I got a new internet modem.
NOTE: Those IPs are FAKE, just used to serve the example
Previously , it was: 123,321,123,222 (thanks to the staff! I forgot my old IP and I emailed them in support if they had it in records)
Now, it hasn't change much, but it's: 123,321,123,236
Is that enough to trick an IP ban-based system? A few sites I used to go on (don't ask what or why I was banned <_<) I'm able to now. I know for a fact one of them didn't ban on IP alone, because proxies didn't even work.
ID:278351
 Jul 28 2010, 12:34 am
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Jul 28 2010, 2:18 am
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Murrawhip
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Cookies.
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Cookies are a good guess... I'm going to contact the site to see how they applied it, and I suppose saying what my new IP is.
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Your IP address changes pretty much anytime your computer is disconnected and reconnected to the internet. Whether this is from the computer being rebooted, modem or router being reset, whatever. Why are you scared to post your IP address though? It's not like anyone can kidnap your internets.
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tidus123 wrote:
Your IP address changes pretty much anytime your computer is disconnected and reconnected to the internet. Whether this is from the computer being rebooted, modem or router being reset, whatever. Why are you scared to post your IP address though? It's not like anyone can kidnap your internets. The real IP address, not the one off your router that's set off the brand (Linksys is 198.168.1.x, which the last part DOES change as you said), can be used to find someone's location... fairly easily with guesswork if I recall. | |
tidus123 wrote:
Your IP address changes pretty much anytime your computer is disconnected and reconnected to the internet. No, that depends on how your connection is set up in your ISP's end and your computer. You can have either a static or dynamic IP in a network (or something 'in-between'). Both kinds can be convenient for different things. In one of the configurations I can use myself, my ISP gives me a relatively static IP address; it only changes automatically about once a month, or less (in contrast to on every reconnection). This is rather convenient when I'm hosting things, as I very rarely have to re-supply new addresses to people. Why are you scared to post your IP address though? It's not like anyone can kidnap your internets. Yeah. They can just grab information about you (location, ISP, connection type...), identify you in routine data they might have and maybe try to get more info or track you that way, and of course, attempt to hack into your system (naturally just having your IP address exposed isn't nearly enough, you'd need to have some form of security hole that isn't blocked). | |
It largely depends on the website, but more often than not it is a simple IP ban. Sometimes it is a mix of cookies, super cookies, and IP.
Super cookies are things like html5 databases or flash cookies. They go beyond the basic cookies you are used to and they don't generally clear out when you ask the browser to delete the cookies. This makes them a little more useful for bans. | |
Moonlight Memento wrote:
The real IP address, not the one off your router that's set off the brand (Linksys is 198.168.1.x, which the last part DOES change as you said), can be used to find someone's location... fairly easily with guesswork if I recall. (edit) I misread what you said. I thought you meant the opposite of what you actually meant, that the local LAN IP address can be used to find someone's location. I would delete this post, but can't obviously since others have replied to it. (/edit) No, that's completely incorrect. This cannot be used to find someones location at all. How can it be? Thousands, if not millions, of other people will have the exact same IP address. On your local network, you can do whatever you want with addresses; it has nothing to do with the internet. Because of this, your router will set up an address space for your local network. Many routers for home use will use a 192.168.0 address space (all brands/models I've used in my home have used this, but I know of others which do not). If your router uses this address space and mine does too, it's very likely that we both will have the IP address 192.168.0.100. This is OK, because it only applies to your LAN. Unless someone is on your local LAN (Which, for home users, you shouldn't be letting unknown people connect to your local network anyway), then there is nothing they can do with this information. Also, some devices will have multiple IP addresses. Your router, for example, would have both its IP address on your LAN, such as 192.168.0.1, and its internet IP address. Since it is on two networks, and it is a gateway between the two networks, it has to have a way to communicate with both of them. Also, just because your computer is part of a LAN, that does not mean that its IP is necessarily local. At work, we own a class B, so we have tons of IP addresses that only we are allowed to use, and we have access to do whatever we want with the entire range of addresses. So our LAN is a subset of the internet, and all of our computers' LAN IP addresses are also their internet IP addresses. | |
At best you can pin a public IP address to a general location if you don't have access to the provider's network, a town for example. Sometimes of course it will be general pool, so you'll just get the allocation listed at the head office of the ISP, or a regional office.
If you have access to the provider's network and data, then of course this becomes a different story. You would much better be able to pin the IP address to the current VC / ethernet endpoint it is routed. Mapping this endpoint against the ISPs held property data would at least yield you where the ISP hands over to the LAN, which is usually the property you are interested in. This is not exactly a casual task mind, and really requires you to be service personnel for the given ISP as you'll need access to their tools for mapping these (usually somewhat bespoke) databases. | |
Loduwijk wrote:
[...] Everything you just said is wrong. No two people have the same IP address (unless they're on the same connection, in which case an IP based ban/location would still be relevant), local IP addresses don't matter at all (especially when it comes to banning people) and they can't be the same as external ones AFAIK, its easy to get peoples IP addresses over the net, and even easier to get a location based on them at least a general one. As for the OP. Yes, the slightest change in an IP would most likely negate a ban. That's why its such a poor method to use. You could of course ban an entire IP range, but that could catch innocents in it. | |
Falacy wrote:
Everything you just said is wrong. No two people have the same IP address (unless they're on the same connection, in which case an IP based ban/location would still be relevant), local IP addresses don't matter at all (especially when it comes to banning people) and they can't be the same as external ones AFAIK, its easy to get peoples IP addresses over the net, and even easier to get a location based on them at least a general one. No, what he said was correct. He didn't say thousands of people have the same IP address, he said thousands WILL have the same IP address, meaning at some point in the future. Verb tense is very important. | |
Apparently I misread what Moonlight Memento said. He made it sound (to me, anyway) like he was saying you can use an IP address that is a LAN IP address and not an internet IP address to find someone.
He wrote: The real IP address, not the one off your router that's set off the brand Your computer's "real" IP address is its local LAN address (assuming you are part of a LAN), and he specifically said "Not the one off your router" which reinforced that thought in my head. But, on reading through it again after seeing Falacy's and your reply to me, I see that he meant it the other way around. | |
Falacy wrote:
Everything you just said is wrong. Funny, since saying that makes you wrong. No two people have the same IP address (unless they're on the same connection, in which case an IP based ban/location would still be relevant), Wrong; thousands of people all have the same IP address. On my LAN, my computer has the address 192.168.0.100. On my mother-in-law's lan, I know that one of her computers has the address 192.168.0.100. Thousands of other people will also have that IP address. My wife's IP address on our LAN is 192.168.0.101, and thousands of other people will have that same IP address. If it is on your own network, you can do whatever you want with the IP addresses. Heck, you could even set it up so that IP addresses in the internet range actually point to internal LAN devices on your own network if you really wanted to, though that would be stupid. There are IP address ranges that have special uses and special IP addresses that have special meanings. Not every IP address represents some random person on the internet. local IP addresses don't matter at all (especially when it comes to banning people) They matter a lot. Not when it comes to banning people, since the website has no knowledge of your computer's LAN IP address, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't matter at all. If your computer doesn't aquire an IP address, then your LAN infrastructure won't talk to it. and they can't be the same as external ones AFAIK, They can be if you want to go through the hassle of redirecting internet IP addresses to internal addresses, but that would be stupid and would not be of any benefit, which you don't need me to tell you since that part is obvious. its easy to get peoples IP addresses over the net, and even easier to get a location based on them at least a general one. Very easy. It's so easy that someone who doesn't know how could still do it just by asking Google. As I said here - [link] - I misread what Moonline Memento said, and I gave him an incorrect reply based on what he actually meant. Nonetheless, that does not change the accuracy of what I did say, which is not wrong, despite it not being appropriate for what Moonline meant. | |
Loduwijk wrote:
[...] You should have stuck with Audeuro's defense of your multiple people to an IP address babel. | |
What are you people bickering about, you've lost sight of the original topic and now you are fighting about whos right or wrong. When clealy Lodu is right, MANY MANY MANY MILLIONS of people all over the world are using routers right now and they all have the same range of addresses, but not the same INTERNET address.
Theres a difference. Back on topic, if someone IP bans you and you buy a router or something to get around it, they will IP range ban you (which means anyone within those range of IPs will be banned, a lot of innocent victims.). Proxies don't work all the time because some places ban proxies, so you can't use them. There is also the ability to see through proxies and relate it to your IP, keeping you out regardless. Basically, if you're doing something to be banned and its not a wrongful ban, maybe you should leave that place alone and stop haunting people. | |
UmbrousSoul wrote:
[...] Yes, there is a difference, he obviously doesn't understand it though. His original post was this: "No, that's completely incorrect. This cannot be used to find someones location at all. How can it be? Thousands, if not millions, of other people will have the exact same IP address." Back on topic, if someone IP bans you and you buy a router or something to get around it, they will IP range ban you (which means anyone within those range of IPs will be banned, a lot of innocent victims.). IP bans are just a bad method all around. They change frequently, more often on accident than by people intentionally trying to bypass a ban, they can then be re-assigned to innocent people, they can be hoaxed or completely modified, and banning a range (as pointed out multiple times here) just causes innocents to be banned. There's also little need to buy a new router, or for a router to be involved at all. Just unplug your modem for a few seconds, and it will acquire a new IP address when you plug it back in. Assuming accounts can't be created on a whim (as they can on BYOND) an account ban system is usually more effective. Luckily, BYOND finally implemented a computer_id system not too long ago, so at least around here its easy and effective to smack a ban on someone. If only that information was accessible from the website. | |
I read his post and I am certain he is replying about the Router IP range in which I would agree with him. You cannot really locate someone with router ips (though you kind of can, I was thinking about it) however you'd have to know where that person was already and the only thing the routers would give clue to is to which house it was running from. Still it would be impossible to find someone in the world with a router IP.
That is what he was talking about. I use to do traceroutes on internet IPs back when I was a teenager. Oh those were the days. :P | |
UmbrousSoul wrote:
Back on topic, if someone IP bans you and you buy a router or something to get around it, they will IP range ban you (which means anyone within those range of IPs will be banned, a lot of innocent victims.) While what I said was technically correct (although misguided since I had misread the post I replied to and therefore was basically giving a response to something that wasn't said), I see it is causing issues. For that, I apologize, as I don't like to misguide people. Buying a router will not get around an IP ban. You pay your ISP to provide you with internet access. Your ISP supplies you with an IP address which gets assossiated with whatever device you connect to your ISP (by plugging it into whatever hardware they give you). If you connect this to your computer, then your computer has this internet IP address; if you connect their hardware to a router, then the router has this internet IP address, or whatever. This part you understand fine. If you have a local network (LAN) connected to a router, then that creates a new network. This network is separate from the internet network, and the router provides LAN IP addresses to your own devices. The internet does not know or care about your LAN. Your router is connected to the internet, and that device is the only thing the internet knows about. Your computers don't know or care about the internet, technically speaking (even though your operating system will display the word "internet" in many places). If you want something that is on the internet, you type in the address to the device you want to talk to. Your computer knows about its LAN, not about the internet. Your computer gives the address to your router, because the router is most likely your local switch for your LAN and it also is your gateway to the internet. Your router then looks at the address and decides what to do with it based on whether that address is known to the router as part of its LAN or not. If it is not, the router, since it knows about the internet, passes the address to its own gateway, which does the same thing and so on. The important distinction here is that your router has two logical parts. There is the switch for the LAN, and there is the gateway for the internet. As the gateway, the router is the only device that is part of the internet. As the switch, the router supplies the infrastructure for you to have your own network, separate from the internet. Here is an example where the distinction plays a role. If someone contacts your internet IP address, the message goes to your router. Ignoring port forwarding for a moment, the router doesn't have any use for the message, so the message is discarded. For example, your ISP has assigned IP address a.b.c.d to your router. On your computer, you host a web page or a game or whatever and tell people your address is a.b.c.d so they try to connect. Your router doesn't care about these requests, so it discards them, and nobody gets through to whatever you are hosting. You realise that's the IP address to your router, not to your computer, so you tell them "Oh right, my IP address to my computer is 192.168.0.2" so they try to connect to that. 192.168.0.2 is an IP address on your LAN and it is not an internet address, so the message never gets to your router, let alone to your computer, and again nobody sees what you have hosted. This is where port forwarding comes in. Your web server is hosted on port 81 on your computer, so you set up your router so that it forwards all messages on port 81 to your computer. Now people connecting to your web page see it! They still type in the internet IP address to your router, and the message goes to the router. You set up the router to forward all messages on port 81 to IP address 192.168.0.2. Now, when it gets a message, if it is on that port, it decides to pass the message over from the gateway side to the LAN switch side, and pass the message to 192.168.0.2 on your LAN. People are not sending messages to your computer, they are sending messages to your router, and the port forwarding on your router tells it to basically act as a proxy server and send those messages somewhere else instead (to the computer on your LAN). I am slightly off topic now, but not by a lot, and that was necessary (though it didn't have to be so long winded; I'm just not good at writing short and to the point). Because of what I've said above, it doesn't matter which device is connected to your ISP. That device has whatever internet IP address your ISP gave it. When you connect to a website and they IP ban you, they are banning you based on your internet IP address. They don't know, nor can they know (short of executing arbitrary code on your computer) what your LAN IP address of your computer is. As far as the internet is concerned, your computer does not exist; only your router does. So, you have your computer connected to the ISP and it has address a.b.c.d and you get banned. You get a router, set up a LAN, your computer now has IP address 192.168.0.2 and you go back to the site thinking you've bypassed the ban. Your router is the device on the internet, so your computer requests data from a.b.c.d which goes to the router, the router, as the gateway, goes out to the internet as a.b.c.d and the website sees a connection from a.b.c.d not from 192.168.0.2 and it ignores you because you're banned. Again, I'm sorry if any confusion was caused by my initial post in this thread. I have already edited that post explaining how I misunderstood Moonlight's statement. Now, to go just a little bit further with something I mentioned in my initial reply to this thread... Not all LANs are set up how I just described above. Since I've already been long winded enough, I'll make this vague and short. IP ranges are owned by people or companies. At work, we own the entire 150.155.x.x range (no need to hide the real range; you can see the address just by connecting to our web site anyway). Because we own more than 65,000 addresses, we can assign internet IP addresses to every one of our computers. We don't take full advantage of that, and requests to most of our computers are denied so they will never realise you tried to contact them in the first place, but that's beside the point. Anything of ours that is exposed to the internet has the same internet IP address as its LAN IP address. Basically, unlike the home user situation where their computers are not "on the internet" our computers are "on the internet." Remember, in the end all the IP addresses get mapped to physical addresses. IP is just a scheme devised to make it easier to manage the communications. If my computer has physical address AA-AA-AA-AA-AA-AA and I want to talk to computer at BB-BB-BB-BB-BB-BB, it's difficult to find a way to figure out where that other computer is without sending a message that goes through all of the entire internet, getting forwarded by everything... that is just impractical. The IP scheme gives us a way to deal with that, and since it's a scheme that we devised and defined, we can devise and define it however we want, which includes having special IP ranges such as those like 192.168 and 10.10 and 127.0 and others. | |