Write a rule where people have to describe details about the game, for instance... Someone wrote an ad for a Bakugan-[b]fangame[/b] (yes, not a game, a fangame) and just said "Looking for people everyone has heard of it hurrr derp".
More people would be interested if they can see WHAT it is they need to be doing from the ad itself. If people feel insecure for whatever reason adding it to their ad, email would be fine. The point being possible people applying know what they should be doing.
ID:278339
 Jun 19 2010, 3:20 pm
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I would've used the Feature Tracker, but I didn't think it'd be worth it for a forum suggestion. BYOND Anime have their own section for bad anime ads anyway, why should we descend to their, almost-4chan-worthy level?
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No no, I really do. As a lead staff member for BYOND Anime, it is obviously in my interest to hear where we can improve. And a moderator here, I am fairly confident this discussion can be kept constructive.
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Fine, you did give me permission to do this.
http://www.byond.com/members/BYONDAnime/forum?id=35939 <-- A thread that long just to discuss rips? http://www.byond.com/members/BYONDAnime/forum?id=35881 <-- This is yours. You're essentially playing a bad role model, considering you're the lead staff member. This is like seeing a police officer (law enforcer) that just busted you for speeding (an illegal action), snorting crack (another illegal action, hence being a bad role model). http://www.byond.com/members/BYONDAnime/forum?id=36254 <-- Really now, people have to ask if it's fine to have donations for an anime game (which is illegal (to a point, if there's proof people have donated) as you don't own the property yet you are making money off it, hard to trust someone will put ALL of it to server costs)? http://www.byond.com/members/BYONDAnime/forum?id=35731 <-- This is hypocrisy at it's finest. It's not okay to have Falacy in the guild (something I agree with) when his games are usually as bad as Zeta/insert p-bag rip, with subscriptions, but "donations" (which might be used for a personal cause for all we know after server costs, if those ever get covered) are fine? There's three kinds of donations Ones that have no needing cause (server costs, etc) listed Ones that do have them (usually "server costs" but in some cases I've seen went towards a new PC for personal use) Charity Now, if I find out about a commerical (let's use that overplayed Jeff Gordon one, the one where you buy his tickets for a car and they go to kids with cancer) that has a donation line, I found out about it from a legal venue. If I find it on a, let's say an anime like Bleach or something, and they didn't want it on the show itself, that's an illegal venue, making the donation a hairy one. | |
So would I be correct in concluding you would be interested in seeing us diversify our forum discussions?
Aside from that, it appears your gripes are perhaps more administrative. Our position on money and fan-games is driven from a meeting we had which covered this, among other points: http://files.byondhome.com/BYONDAnime/meetings/20091030/ 20091030.xml The crack analogy was very colourful though, I enjoyed it. | |
Diversity in discussion isn't really needed unless one topic is brought up too frequently to where it's done to death, like rips and copyright issues, where there is a fine-line answer to it, one that seems to be ignored too frequently.
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Well, mostly rule changes but:
- Discussion over what a rip is shouldn't be discussed much anymore. It's been done too much. Inspired from =/= Stolen. This gets discussed a lot from what I see, and people ruining logic and linguistics with stuff like "hay guyz wat u want me add in my rip tht maek it oreeginal????????" is just spam at that point. - Fangames are illegal to a point, considering you don't own the property. However, if the creator doesn't receive money at all, the copyright holders I doubt will do anything at all. If a game has donations up for server costs for instance, it would be very nice to see how it's going. A simple email from ATP (if that's what they're using) shown to the players would do miracles, because that validates it's going to a good, "legal" cause and, provided I had spare money, would make me want to donate as well if the game was good. | |
Moonlight Memento wrote:
where there is a fine-line answer to it, one that seems to be ignored too frequently. Just stepping in to point out that I suspect most fangame owners don't immerse themselves in the forums to check where exactly that fine line stands. They just throw up a game and go about asking for players/money/fame/glory/fairtrade marmelade cake. The price of fish, that sort of thing. http://www.byond.com/members/BYONDAnime/forum?id=35939 <-- A thread that long just to discuss rips? It's a forum, people will post at length and often - they get passionate about their point of view. A thread becomes 'too long' when there is zero new content or it goes off topic, not before. http://www.byond.com/members/BYONDAnime/forum?id=35881 <-- This is yours. You're essentially playing a bad role model, considering you're the lead staff member. Quote from the post you actually linked to; BYOND fulfills it's own by responding to notices like a good business citizen should. There is a point at which torch-and-pitchfork wielding, angry-shouting 'No money for rips! No blood for oil!' becomes ineffective. BYOND administration runs BYOND, and BYOND Anime administration runs BYOND Anime. They're not policemen. BYOND isn't a PI. It's a business. Businesses - unless they're the Gestapo - don't send out Internal Audit teams to hunt down people that commit crime. They just don't shelter criminals once they're exposed. If I find it on a, let's say an anime like Bleach or something, and they didn't want it on the show itself, that's an illegal venue, making the donation a hairy one. As opposed to the host just logging in and saying 'can I have money please,' for instance? That's what's happening, minus the host having to manually ask it. Last time I checked, how you dress or where you go to ask for money isn't a criminal condition. as you don't own the property yet you are making money off it, hard to trust someone will put ALL of it to server costs)? They're not going 'give me money in order to play this game!' That would be selling, and yes, that would be very naughty. If you want to donate to a programmer for spending time to program something you're mutually interested in, however, I fail to see the problem. BYOND Anime administration has no obligation to stop people asking for money. You seem to be criticising BYOND Anime based on the fact that the players and developers aren't perfectly rule-adhering saints [ as opposed to other guilds, say? ] And the admins aren't heroes of justice. [ As opposed to other guilds, say? ] | |
As the rules are essentially common sense applies, I'm sure we can accommodate some of this, thanks. You can perhaps appreciate how I'm still struggling to find the association between these issues and "almost-4chan-worthy", though.
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Stephen001 wrote:
I'm still struggling to find the association between these issues and "almost-4chan-worthy", though. We're the home of Dragonball Z and Death Note, it's easy to see why you might be under the assumption that we never stopped being 4chan. | |
@Deathguard: I'd wager most of the poeple starting these arguments about that fine line are game owners :)
A thread is too long when it's obvious of the answer and it's been done to death. It's trolling at that point because everything relevant has been said too many times before. Administration means enforcing rules, no? So if I dress in the nude (public indecency), and go to the Christian church to ask for money, that isn't a crime? It shouldn't be, but those guys will take offense and I'd lose the case. How do you donate to a programmer for spending time to make something you want? That's a transcation. @Stephen001: 4chan is famous for being the "butthole of the internet" riddled with trolls of various kinds, the most I've heard of were people who can't let topics go and keep discussing them when it's been done to death already, just to irritate the people. Also, in the past I've seen BYOND Anime fall to /b/ levels, but now it's more or less just repetition. | |
Copyright infringement is in the US breaking copyright laws, and so you could say a crime. However the way it is handled (like most crimes in the US) is more akin to litigation. The victim (in this case the copyright holder) brings a suit against the accused. This model is endemic in copyright law in particular. Content handlers such as youtube / google / ourselves do not pro-actively filter such infringement, but instead respond to and respect the copyright holder's wishes, which may include cease and desist and so on. Same goes that ISPs do not pro-actively filter such infringement, but again respect the wishes of copyright holders and provide information where they choose to do so in order to assist in litigation. I'm not sure why BYOND should be particularly different in this respect and should pro-actively filter such infringement. The only reason BYOND Anime even attempts this is because of moral prerogative (which I personally disagree with), which happens to sit differently to your moral prerogative.
Your example of indecent exposure is interesting, because the church would obviously bring a case against you, but wouldn't enforce sentencing on you themselves, or pass judgment. Because that is for the courts to decide, as they arbitrate US law. The church may eject you because you have offended their sensibilities, or they may not, which is their rule, not US law. The rule change you as asking for regards BYOND Anime's rules, which are decided on through dialogue in meetings, on the forums and privately. I feel this distinction is important, because you're hinting at us to play police without the authority to do so, through your examples. | |
If no one takes action, but the copyright holder is fully aware something bad is going on and aware it is bad... well, hard saying it's a crime huh? Google (aka YouTube) has gotten sued how many times now? They don't learn. People keep uploading those infringing videos... It won't change. The users should be the ones getting sued in the case of YouTube, but Google is the one getting it.
Last I checked, most laws prohibit walking around completely naked. Discussing new rules is fine and all, but sometimes things have to be done. Let's say the highest-ranked 5 people from BYOND Anime discuss it. You, and 4 other people. If two people disagree with a new rule, but 3 agree, what do you do? The majority agrees with what it is more-than-likely right. | |
And we agreed the status quo, hence we have it. After all, if I had my way on this matter then things would obviously be very different.
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The thing is though, it keeps bringing up another issue. You're the leader. If things aren't going the way you want, are you really in charge?
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Subject tags have been suggested a few times but they've never been enforced. I'd really like to see [Paid]/[Unpaid]. Beyond having a general template there's nothing much anyone can do.
For future reference, post all suggestions on the feature tracker.