They don't loose the ability to sell that product. No one is saying that, they are simply loosing the sale they would have gained from you actually purchasing their product. Downloading is stealing it. Stop trying to rationalize it.
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All crap.
Not a single one worth a single dime. If you don't think so, than you are brainwashed and not a real gamer. | |
You people don't realize what gaming was 10 years ago and what it is now.
It wasn't an industry back then, games weren't made simply for profit. Now they are. Theres a HUGE difference (that isn't exactly obvious to n00bs) to an actual good game and a game made by todays standards. | |
I'm saying that its not worth the money, this regurjitated crap is worth 10 bucks, at best.
But no, now we are paying top dollar for games that offer ..well..nothing. | |
You're the one who is brainwashed and not a real gamer.
Though all of them are not great, some of the games on that list are amazing. Borderlands Brutal Legend Uncharted 2 Demons Souls Street Fighter 4 Batman Arkham Asylum Dead Space (not Wii version) Ghostbusters If you think those listed games are anything other than great. You have stupidly... Actually, you have impossibly high standards and will just never be satisfied. You should stop playing games now. | |
The Magic Man wrote:
You're the one who is brainwashed and not a real gamer. Well, I was going to write one this morning but it looks like The Magic Man has beaten me to the punch. Once your standards get in the way of actually playing any games, you have lost your "gamer" status and you should probably step down from that pedestal and take another look. | |
As a general reply to your post, I would like to request that, even though it is a trend here, you abstain from replying to an educated, thought-out post that discusses points and explains them and the reasoning behind them with a dimly-thought out post that does nothing than stupidly throw out a few baseless statements as facts <small>(even ones that the explanations for why they're wrong are included in the post being replied to)</small> without even trying to explain the reasoning behind them. Such a reply is obviously worthless as what was said in it can't be regarded as anything meaningful.
Ham Doctor wrote: They don't loose the ability to sell that product. First, you mean "lose" with one o, just like the word in the post you're replying to. "loose" is an entirely different word. No one is saying that Second, even you are, in that very post: "Downloading is stealing it". The act of 'stealing', by definition, involves taking the property of another without having the right or permission to do so - the meaning of which is that there was some sort of an object was in the possession of a person, you took that object, and so the person doesn't have it anymore. Therefore, by inference, a stolen object cannot be sold by the person from whom it was stolen. As you should now see (unless you obstinately refuse to do so), as Jp said, the crime in piracy is 'copyright infringement', not 'theft'. they are simply loosing the sale they would have gained from you actually purchasing their product. "The sale"? What sale? In case you still don't understand, this is only a mere assumption. Nothing suggests that if a person hadn't had the option of downloading something, then he would had bought it instead, and similarly, there is no guarantee that if a person has downloading something, that he won't buy it in the future (on the contrary, some people do this often, consistently). By saying that, you are showing that you obviously haven't comprehended the post you were replying to. Downloading is stealing it. Asserting such a statement like that is meaningless. In reply to it: look up "stealing". Stop trying to rationalize it. It's called looking at things objectively, and perhaps outside of the box. | |
Theodis wrote:
There are demos of games out there for that very reason. Aside from PC games, your argument is wholly invalid. I am not for downloading PC games to begin with, except in rare cases, like replacing my lost copy of Halo when I still have the key. If you are torrenting games for one of the "big three" systems, that's a whole 'nother can of worms that extends far past "just trying it out." I am, however, not against downloading games for the lesser systems. Games for the DS and various Gameboys rarely got demos and those that did, were never really publicly usable due to things like vandals at Wal*Mart. I downloaded Kingdom Hearts: Chain Of Memories and Ace Combat for the GBA a few days before release just to try them out. There were no demos and both were of questionable content (KH for its card system and AC for its being on a hand-held). Kingdom Hearts lived up to what little coverage it got so I bought it a few days later and it offered me about 100 hours of fun game-play. Ace Combat was decent, but it wasn't worth the time to play. However one may view it, I will never veiw downloading games from the older systems as 'wrong.' At this point, the games are all at resale and the only people hurt by it are Gamestop and pawn shops. Nowadays, downloading the games from older systems, NES, SNES, Genesis, N64, and even Playstation, the ROMs and emulators for such games and systems offer much more than the physical copies ever could. Examples: Metroid II(GB) - The ROM got a major upgrade in terms or a color palette and the horrible save system overshadowed by emulators native systems. While there were a few games that had upgrades such as this, this is the only one I can think of at the moment. Most of the emulators now, offer some sort of on-line connection between systems allowing for multi-player abilities far beyond the physical medium. Most emulators are an all-in-one, super systems that have screen captures, video and audio recording, generally better methods of saving, built-in cheating devices, custom keyboard and controller setups, video scaling and filtering, and many more features. Uhhh... lost my train of thought here... | |
Don't much care for Resident Evil?
I had to dig deep on the Wii games. Nintendo really does *not* have any sort of quality control at all. | |
Hiro the Dragon King wrote:
If you are torrenting games for one of the "big three" systems, that's a whole 'nother can of worms that extends far past "just trying it out." How does it? I am, however, not against downloading games for the lesser systems. Games for the DS and various Gameboys rarely got demos and those that did, were never really publicly usable due to things like vandals at Wal*Mart. Kind of a double standard, don't ya think? However one may view it, I will never veiw downloading games from the older systems as 'wrong.' At this point, the games are all at resale and the only people hurt by it are Gamestop and pawn shops. The Wii Virtual Console and Playstation Network would like you to meet them. It's where publishers are selling digital copies of their old games. By pirating games that are available on them you're stealing from the publishers, and you have no right at all to possess copies of those games, let-alone play them. You said so yourself. You're really confusing me with how different your standards are based on the product. Could you please explain yourself? | |
I'm not trying to rationalise anything. All my torrenting is of stuff that's morally pretty sound - unless you think I should be buying a copy of Planescape: Torment, Mechwarrior 2, or Chrono Trigger (Which wasn't even released here, so I'd have to get a US SNES as well).
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I'm quite enjoying Little King's Story myself. It's very whimsical. I've also been enjoying Beatles: Rock Band, but that's a different kettle of fish.
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Smoko wrote:
Hiro the Dragon King wrote: Because downloading games for the "big three" goes way past "just trying it out". You have to mod your system, or of have a very high end computer to run them. Most of the games for these three have demos anyways. I am, however, not against downloading games for the lesser systems. Games for the DS and various Gameboys rarely got demos and those that did, were never really publicly usable due to things like vandals at Wal*Mart. Short answer, yes. Condensed long answer, no. However one may view it, I will never view downloading games from the older systems as 'wrong.' At this point, the games are all at resale and the only people hurt by it are Gamestop and pawn shops. I admit, I had forgotten about the Wii's Virtual Console but I had not known about Playstation Store. I revise that statement to, if it is not on the Virtual Console or the PSN, I feel morally at peace downloading it. Well, the VC is something that I have bought many games for. While the games that are on there are a bit overpriced, I have bought most anything that I do not own physical copies of. In the case of the games I downloaded, I downloaded my games long before the Wii's release. Most of the games I play though, I actually own and are not even on the VC, i.e., Kirby Superstar, Worms, the various Pokemon games. There are 788 NES games and 83 are on VC. There are 785 SNES games and 46 are on VC. There are 387 N64 games and 16 are on VC. There are 318 Sega Master System games and 13 are on VC. There are 614 Sega Genesis games and 68 are on VC. EDIT: There are bound to be some titles missing that I would like to play. The Playstation Store on the other hand has an impressive list of games and decent pricing. There are games on there that I have neither been able to find nor download. I will actually be looking into some of these. I may be setting aside my four year old download of Einhänder. My only question is, "Why hasn't Nintendo put up this much effort?" Seriously, they haven't even ported Duck Hunt to the VC yet. The only reason I haven't touched the PS3 so far is due to it's price and lack of backwards compatibility. Luckily, my friend has one that he no longer cares about. You're really confusing me with how different your standards are based on the product. Could you please explain yourself? If it isn't available from the company and the local store doesn't sell it, I will download it. If I wish to "try it out", and there are no demos, I will download it. If I already have a copy and I wish to play an "enhanced" version, I will download it. If the DRM for a product is so ridiculously unbearable, I will download it after buying it (Velvet Revolver's 'Contraband', Miyazaki's 'Howls Moving Castle', and EA's DRM practices are good examples). I think I covered everything. | |
That is the only time I agree with it, when it is not available and you can't find a physical or digital copy to buy. I have several roms I downloaded simply because I am having a hard time finding them.
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VC stuff is also inferior to a ROM for a number of games, particularly in PAL regions - most of the games are NTSC versions, with the PAL versions having a speedup so they hit 60hz, rather than a proper NTSC-to-PAL conversion. In many cases the game had a PAL release anyway! And to add insult to injury, the list is different in different countries, and the Australian list is much smaller than the US or Japanese one - and very few of the games on there are ones that weren't released here.
There seems to be a lot of good stuff on the PS3 store, though, yes, and now they've got a non-credit-card option in Aussieland, I may check it out. | |
Hiro the Dragon King wrote:
Because downloading games for the "big three" goes way past "just trying it out". You have to mod your system, or of have a very high end computer to run them. Most of the games for these three have demos anyways. Modding systems is fairly simple. Wii doesn't have any demos, 360 has very few demos (excluding Live Arcade titles) and PS3 has even less (But piracy currently isn't possible on it). And lets not forget homebrew. But more to the point, modding has more benefits than piracy because it helps make consoles region free and allows you to use backups and not risk ruining/losing your real copy of a game. Short answer, yes. Condensed long answer, no. Could you please explain that? I've noticed you're avoiding certain points or replies all together. Doing that doesn't really help your point at all. I admit, I had forgotten about the Wii's Virtual Console but I had not known about Playstation Store. I revise that statement to, if it is not on the Virtual Console or the PSN, I feel morally at peace downloading it. Hooray for finally making sense! The Playstation Store on the other hand has an impressive list of games and decent pricing. There are games on there that I have neither been able to find nor download. I will actually be looking into some of these. I may be setting aside my four year old download of Einhänder. For PSN Playstation titles I'm fairly certain they work on PSPs as well as PS3s (For bonus points, the PS3 upscales them). My only question is, "Why hasn't Nintendo put up this much effort?" Seriously, they haven't even ported Duck Hunt to the VC yet. I'd say there's a few reasons reasons: 1) Nintendo and the people who hold the games distribution license need to agree on putting it up. 2) The games need to be reclassified for release. 3) Nintendo are lazy and don't need to put effort in to make big money. If it isn't available from the company and the local store doesn't sell it, I will download it. If I wish to "try it out", and there are no demos, I will download it. If I already have a copy and I wish to play an "enhanced" version, I will download it. If the DRM for a product is so ridiculously unbearable, I will download it after buying it (Velvet Revolver's 'Contraband', Miyazaki's 'Howls Moving Castle', and EA's DRM practices are good examples). More common sense! But to make your arguments sound more credible you should add online retailers to your list of where you can buy it from, unless online shopping isn't an option for you? | |
That statement so so ignorant and full of crap it isn't funny. Since when did enjoying different games then other people not make you a gamer? Get the eff-word outta here.
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Not at all. Those games are fairly old and hard to find. So I don't have problems with it. Although to be honest, I always rather much have a real copy than a digital one. I actually happen to own all three of those titles, with the original boxes and manuals. Thank you pawn shops.
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Smoko wrote:
Modding systems is fairly simple. Wii doesn't have any demos, 360 has very few demos (excluding Live Arcade titles) and PS3 has even less (But piracy currently isn't possible on it). And lets not forget homebrew. The Wii is simple to mod, or was; Nintendo seems to have taken it upon themselves recently, to delete the mods from peoples Wiis upon updating, as well as patching it. The 360 requires physical modding which can get you banned from X-Box live if you simply forget to unplug your ethernet cable, and as you have said, the PS3 doesn't currently have a way. Playing Wii games on the computer is a ridiculous venture, X-Box 360 games are extremely difficult to run, and PS3 games are out of the question for even supercomputers to handle.</sarcasm> In all seriousness, I can run Crysis at full settings on my desktop and can still barely run MGS3(PS2) fast enough to make it enjoyable. Could you please explain that? I've noticed you're avoiding certain points or replies all together. Doing that doesn't really help your point at all. Reading through the rest of the post, you should have noticed the elaboration on this... Hooray for finally making sense! Sardonic much? But to make your arguments sound more credible you should add online retailers to your list of where you can buy it from, unless online shopping isn't an option for you? Buying games from on-line retailers is not something I have had particularly good experiences with, not to mention that most of the games I search for are listed between $40 and $130. | |
By my reasoning, you'd have committed the crime of theft, and probably broken a few laws regards military security in the process. I'm not sure if "Potentially endangering national security" is actually a charge one can be tried under.
I still don't see potential loss of profit as equivalent to loss of something of worth. It's not theft. Doesn't mean it's not a crime, mind, I'm just picking nits here. I barely even download anything, and 99.9% of what I do download is so out of date and impossible to find that purchasing it legitimately would be extremely difficult at best... Not really the sort of thing that the RIAA or the MPAA get fired up about.
Which is the business problem here, given that in a capitalist environment, investment must pay off, or it is bound to be ceased.
It's a sunk cost, though, not a cost of creating each individual item. It doesn't factor into the optimum costing for the item in a free market.
I do agree that you require some level of investment, though, which is why it's an interesting problem. The current model is clearly broken in some pretty major ways - any social system that so many people buy out of is clearly not working - but I'm not sure that, say, the patronage system would work any better, and I doubt that you'd get nearly the same level of production from a purely-free, doing-it-for-the-hell-of-it model (Though that model shouldn't be mocked. See, for example, Dwarf Fortress. Although that's closer to in-development and donation-supported, but still. Reminds me, I have to donate a bunch of money to Toady one day...)