Jp wrote:

What? So people that are out of a job should just give up and die? Old people should just give up and die?

Of course not.

Because that's what you're suggesting. Get rid of welfare, you'll kill thousands of people. Just for the glory of 'the economy'.

I am suggesting no such thing, and that's not what would happen. Since there are so many people dependent on it at the moment, obviously I wouldn't suggest just ripping it out of the picture all at once.

Here's a suggestion: Cut defence spending in half, (Getting rid of a significant proportion of your army in the process - you don't need that many people in this day and age), and put that 150 billion dollars you've freeded up into health, education, and welfare, in roughly equal proportions. With that money, provide a system for government-supported healthcare and education, that is as close to completely free as you can get. Triple the minimum wage. Also, the minimum wage should not take into account tips for people like waiters - they should get the same minimum wage as anyone else.

Better suggestion: Cut the defense spending in half, and then cut the welfare in half as well. Then cut taxes in half.

Of course, I said I didn't want to go into this. I might if that's what the topic was about, but of course we won't have a topic about that since such a topic would be deleted before it got off the ground.

I will say one thing though: not only do the majority of people who get welfare not need it at all, but they also abuse it as well. I see people on welfare go through the checkout all the time with large bags of clams and piles of expensive meat cuts and all the best stuff. Supposedly they are the one that needs help, but I'm not on welfare and I can't afford any of that.

Jp wrote:

You're just being ridiculous. America's economy is horribly skewed towards the rich at the moment.

I'm being realistic. It's like you said: it's very, very simple. There are, at this moment, a number of companies in debt and losing money. What do you suppose happen to a company on the brink of collapse when you increase its payroll costs by 150-250%, as you suggested (you said "triple", but then, most of the workforce is above minimum wage to begin with)? Helloooo, bankruptcy! Instead of making low money, you now have hundreds of thousands to millions of workers who are now making no money because their jobs just poofed. On top of that, each of those companies that just went bankrupt was previously doing business with other companies--suppliers, distributors, etc. All of these companies they were doing business with take their own hit from the payroll increase and at the same time lose all the volume of business they were doing with those companies that went under as a result of the wage hike. Some of these companies will go bankrupt themselves in a cascade effect; those that are still standing will be very poorly off between the higher costs and lower profits. If they want to remain in business at all, they have to drastically reduce costs and increase profits; production goes down, workers get laid off, prices go up. Those people that still have jobs at all are able to buy less, even if they do make more money--and many of them won't be making more money, because many of those that hold onto their jobs will be skilled professionals that were already making salaries above $32,000 and would not see any increase. If anything, they'd probably get pay cuts from companies desperate to try to recover some vague semblance of profitability.

That said, this is an extreme scenario for an extreme suggestion ($15.50+/hr minimum wage). Yes, we're overdue for another dollar or so, but in the end the minimum wage itself is a stopgap measure. It's there to help patch things over when and where the economy starts to get kind of shaky, but in the long run it's of rather dubious effectiveness. The only way to increase the actual standard of living is to increase production and increase employment. Not only do minimum wage hikes fail to accomplish either, they generally cause a slowing or even decrease in the number of jobs (and by extension production). That said, yeah, we are about due, but ramping up the minimum wage is only going to do any good in the long run if it's coupled with policies that can create enough business growth to sustain the new, higher wage level.

America's economy is horribly skewed towards the rich at the moment.

Yeah, uh. You know when you suggested we move to a "real sliding scale" with our taxes, where the low end pays about 5% and the high end pays about 30%? Right now most of the people at the low end pay 0%. The high end often pays 50%+. So while it is skewed towards the rich (which is kind of a "DUH", since being rich is defined as running on the high end of the economy), your perceptions of the skew are themselves rather skewed.

Elation wrote:

I dunno about that, Leftley... I'm sure if you took Bill Gates' salary and divided it up among the rest of the nation you could easily triple the minimum wage- then, nationalise all industry and prohibt the right to vote; job done!

Just for fun, I decided to check this out.

According to this site, Bill Gates's actual salary is "only" $865,114 USD a year. (This was in 2003 so it's a bit out of date, but close enough. Also note that he makes a lot more money than that out of stock options and shares and so on.)

The population of the US is approximately 295,734,134

Some quick division gives $0.0029 per US citizen. So if Bill Gates split his entire salary among the rest of the USA, each person would get just under a third of a cent per year.

So not quite triple the United States' minimum wage. Pretty close though. ;-D

If he gave away all of his current wealth, according to this site everyone would score a once-off payment of $92.14. Wahey!

I'd personally wager that the publicity GTA gets for this stuff actually increases sales. So much for a boycott.

Hiead

Scoobert wrote:

I am telling you, at least in this state, your perception is wrong.

And in many states he is right, including mine. I get almost all the money taken out for taxes back afterwords, and so do many of the people I know.

The recent minimum wage hike for NY (It went up more than half a dollar) has done nothing but hurt us. Especially those of us that it was supposedly supposed to help. I made a bit over minimum, but minimum wage was increased to slightly more than what I make, bringing me back down to minimum wage.

Either way, all the prices of everything around here went up, and our buying power is no more than what it was before. Heck, even the scraps my workplace was practically giving away for free (sale on sleds they wanted to get rid of, $1-2 apiece), they raised the prices on. They can't afford to be nice anymore. They are also cutting back on ordering dough, so the bakery in the building has less extra stuff to give away to charity.

If they take out the killing of prostitutes, they might as well take out the killing of races other than caucasians, females, and senior citizens. These people's ignorance is what causes this crap. It's not violence against prostitutes, it's a violent game in general.

If I had my way, I'd make it more realistic and put children in there too.

Jp wrote:

The minimum wage in America is ridiculously low, currently. $5.15 an hour, according to wikipedia. Assuming a 40 hour work week, that's $206 a week.

Australia has a minimum wage of $484.4 a week, which is US$ 362. You would have to work 70 hours a week to match that in the US, at the minimum wage.

You're just being ridiculous. America's economy is horribly skewed towards the rich at the moment.

EDIT: Hell, I get paid at the rate of $9.5 AUD an hour, which is about $7.125 US an hour. I am 16, working in a supermarket as a checkout chick, and I get paid more then someone on the minimum wage in America. That is nuts. It's insane.

Someone needs to update wikipedia :P. anyway The minimum wage in NY is now $6.75 per hour. At sixteen I made $8hr for my first job.

PirateHead wrote:

Thanks for the clarification, Captian Obvious!

Quite welcome, citizen! I know how much difficulty mere men may have with such sticky issues, which is why it is my sworn duty to provide the powers of clarity given to me by fantastic forces from beyond the stars. Captain Obvious, away!

Game sabre wrote:

It's the players that choose to kill the prostitutes, the game doesn't influence it in any way nor does it encourage it so blaming the game is stupid, blame the player.

Exactly. It gives you the opportunity to kill them, just like in real life. I think prostitutes should ban life.

If they take out the killing of prostitutes, they might as well take out the killing of races other than caucasians, females, and senior citizens.

Heh... that controversy came up with GTA: Vice City. One mission, pitting you against a gang called the Haitians, urges you "Kill all the Haitians!" Some real-life Haitians interpreted this as an incitement to genocide.

But they sounded the warning too late, and now there are no Haitians left anymore.