If you went on the idea that we are purely products of our nurturing/experiences and our genes, do you think Artificial intelligence is possible?
If you took a determinist approach I think it could be possible...
if you argued that we do everything for a reason then it's plausible, because if there are reasons for everything for why we do them (even choosing something randomly has a reason, you're most likely choosing it randomly because you got the urge to try something different but couldn't choose what you wanted, or you wanted to do randomization to fight back on this theory, etc...)
When you go to the ice cream store, are the types you don't like even choices? So then we know that our freedom is limited by preference and desire. When you ask yourself a philosophy question, even though that philosophy question may not have an answer, there is still one answer you usually like better than the rest, and thus are the ones you don't like really a choice?
Sure something else could influence you to choose something out of the ordinary, but that influence is a reason in itself...
hehe I thought I'd start some philosophy discussion, because artificial intelligence has always interested me...
ID:275746
 Oct 23 2004, 7:07 pm
|
|
|
Oct 23 2004, 7:10 pm
|
|
GokuDBZ3128
 |
AI (Artificial Intelligence) has always fascinated me as well. But, I believe what you are describing is something called "Faith". Not everybody believes in it, though. I do not know if I believe in it or not. No idea why. =P Still trying to figure it out.
|
Recognition, comparing, and matching images with stuff the brain has stored away and learned would be udderly difficult to do. I just can't see an AI ever being created that is anywhere near our intelect. I mean, I really don't think they know how OUR minds work yet. Once they figure that out, then it might be a piece of cake. But it is pretty difficult.
A lot of people wonder why they can "hear" sound in their head just like they hear it on the outside, but it doesn't make sound. This is because sound is an invention our minds make up to translate the vibrations in the air. Therefore, our minds can "speak" within our heads. Stuff like that is the simple stuff about our mind. You want something complex, think about how our minds determine what should be learned and what shouldn't. I mean, after the age of 3, we learn stuff without hearing the words "No, you can't do that." to make us learn... So what triggers us to learn that specific information? Also, think about how on earth our minds are storing information... Data on a computer is stored, what, magntically (or something like that), but all our minds have is like electric signals. Electricity doesn't just "Sit" there, and our neurons don't form in ways that they can then be "read", so how on earth are we even storing information? Kind of boggles the *hrrm* mind. | |
Also, computers and AI's have limited storage space in their memories. Once that is full, they cannot learn or hold anymore information. Humans, on the other hand, can hold an infimite amount of information. There is no end to the possibilities in what we can do.
| |
I bet there is some type of a limit, because we don't remember everything, but MAN do we remember a lot of stuff. I mean, entire languages with spelling and sound to go with each letter and word, like years worth of images (Even if you don't remember something, people say "remember this" and it pops into your mind. This means it had to be stored somehow.).
Yikes. | |
True. But, it is stored, and never leaves your brain. Have you ever realised when you have forgotten something, all of a sudden you smell something, see something, or possibly feel something that triggers something in your mind causing you to remember something way back when that you have forgotten? See. These things never leave your mind. Also, think if people with photographic memory. They do not forget anything. I recently read an article about a student who read an entire Earth Science and Global Sociel Studies textbook without even taking the courses and he got a 100% on the regents. For both classes.
| |
Actually, I'd say people with photographic memory prove that there isn't unlimited storage capacity "up there"... because their minds are diminished in other ways. A person with photographic memory, for instance, may not be very creative visually or have very good spatial manipulation skills, because what they see is stored in a literal fashion.
To use an example, the person will remember a detailed picture exactly as they saw it, but will have a hard time imagining that picture with a change. If you show them a new design for a car, and it's red, then ask them how they would like it in blue, or with a different door design, they would have to see it before they could "see" it. Their extra storage comes at a cost in other capabilities... this suggests that the capacity for the human brain is finite. (Furthermore, the fact that some forgotten memories are retrieved by an associative trigger does not prove that all memories may be retrieved that way, nor that the retrieved memory is going to contain all the information it did when it was fresh. It might not even be correct, but in the absence of anything else to compare it to, it's impossible to tell.) | |
Faith in what though? You have to have faith in something, you can't just call it faith. I'm not quite sure what your calling faith there.
| |
I believe that it is completely possible...
My belief on the human body and mind is that we are nothing more than a "machine" ourselves... A complex organization of parts that result in a "device" that can perform tasks, and is controlled by a computer... We're certainly vastly more advanced and complex than anything we've created thus far, but in the end, if we can be "built" (note that I don't mean "created"... I mean "natural forces molded raw material through vast amounts of time to result in a complex system", then we can eventually build an artificial copy... | |
There isn't an actual infinite amount of space in the human brain. The amount of 'memory' we d have is setimated to be around 4Terrabytes (thats 4000GB or 4 trillion bytes).
Computers do, infact, have the capability for fairly advanced object identification. For example, a door was developed some time ago that used a camera. You looked at the camera, and if you had a file the door would let you in. It used biometric data (the width between your eyes, for example) to work. Even a heavy disguise couldn't fool the camera. Look, also, at OCR - Optical Character Recognition. Computers can identify letters from a scanned image, as long as they aren't too garbled. Scanning a page from a textbook, for example, would give you the text from that page. It's my opinion that AI, on a basic level, is fairly easy. You simply need to make it understand a few commands and a few words, and have it so that if the AI doesn't understand a word, it asks you what it means. Viola! Learning AI. An example of an AI that looks up information on the Web is NannyBot. These Nannybots hang about in chatrooms, and if they don't know what something means, they do a quick search on the internet, looking for particular keywords in particular. Ask it about the film Dodgeball, and it might say that it hasn't seen it, but that it's supposed to be funny. | |
Our brains have an excellent system of filling in details...
The memories we store are probably not even complete ones... But more like the basic framework, which our brains flesh out on the fly when we bring them up... All it takes is a little set of "rules", and we can reconstruct anything... Heck, this effect can be seen in the way our brains interpret our senses... Look at a picture of a square with a chunk taken out of a side... Technically, it'a no longer the same image as a fully drawn square, yet our brains fill in that little gap, and recognize it as a square... Or that thing about how we can read misspelled words, as long as we're given the correct first and last letters, length of the word, and a small bit of context to start from... Our brains makes sense out of it as we go... Or how some of us have the "amazing" ability to interpret horribly written posts on internet forums... But anyways, what I'm saying is that our brains don't know everything... They just know a lot of generic rules that they apply in "real time" to figure everything else out as they go... But to us, it seems like it was just something we knew all along... | |
Jon Snow wrote:
If you went on the idea that we are purely products of our nurturing/experiences and our genes, do you think Artificial intelligence is possible? The mind in context is only limited by its own intentions and rule sets of limitation by structures designed to limit. Thuse a mind to define by its self would be incomplete intell all data is covered by logical explanation. In which to say whether the mind could cover or not would be unknown intell the logic of the question is explained. As such the definition set by the mind currently of knowledge as in IQ to state a basis of whole. Would be to prove the intelegence on a scale defined and detailed by a mind or minds of their own. To be in association or related to greater knowledge by number. BLA BLA I could go on but I woun't my head hurts LIMEY BEANS! | |
This thread will grow and grow, then it will grow no more. As LummoxJR grunts, he uses his magical power to SHUT YOU GUYS UP!
| |
Oh, no,no. My bad, I am sorry. I made a mistake. I mispelled it. I did not mean "Faith". I meant "Fate". I was refering to the first post. If you did not know (which you probably do) is when someone believes your life setup for you. Like every action you make was already planned and certain things you were never meant to do. That is what I meant. Sorry for the confusion.
| |
and here i am thinking you were talking about artificial intelligence for humans (as your title suggests), and was ready to suggest that politicians get in line for that surgery- right after priests.
| |
not necessarily that everything was already planned but more so when an opportunity arises that you get to make a choice - lets just say it's dinner time - there are some things that are not even really choices for dinner, and some things that are based on your preference, and genetics, plus whatever knowledge you have at the time (yes some people do choose healthier foods over bad ones here in america.) So you're really not making a choice, but more so going by what is desired the most at the time.
I would have to say the human mind is the most beautiful thing a human being possess's, without it being as powerful as it is I doubt we would have survived as long as we have. With the human mind and it's ability to create "ideas" abstractly, we can adapt to a situation in a matter of seconds instead of waiting for genes to mutate and evolve!! It's marvelous, it gets cold outside and we develop the idea of a jacket! Too bad I feel with every coming year of new technology we move less, and think less... such a pity, such a wasted beautiful thing. A being with the power to be god in terms of destruction or creation, yet we throw it around like it's some kind of toy half the time. I was just tossing an idea around in my head the other day, I was watching Rippley's believe it or not, and they had alien encounters... then I recognized the alien posts here on the forums and I thought I would say something. Do you think it's possible that the "flying saucers" (which are said to be inadequately shaped for space travel according to the guy on Rippley's) that they were really time machines, and that the aliens are really us a few million years from now with mutated genes? Think about the stereotypical alien, skinny and big headed... Makes perfect sense, the body muscles have deteriorated from developing things to do all the physical labor for us and the brain has expanded due to over use! Perhaps they're checking out their past to see where they went wrong, or maybe we are an experiment, they put us here and they're checking us out to see what we become like a pet dog or something! | |
Movies like the animatrix and I robot I think are true stories.I believe they will learn more than us and then begin to take over.That or humans kill each other iwth a nuke bomb.
| |
http://www.supermemo.com/articles/myths.htm
Read that. But i intend on working on the brain when I've grown up more and will hopefully invent androids. REMEMBER MY NAME, DEATH AWAITS U! | |
Quick way to think of this, imagin your english teacher. What color are his/her eyes? You don't know? Well, that is because your mind has not stored that data, sure you have seen them, but your mind does not find that as important information, but picture thier face, you don't have a problem with that.
The mind, as SSGX put it, just keeps a framework of information. It decides what information is important and what isn't. For some people, like me, remember names is extreamly difficult, but I can remember things about people, like family, favorite color, and what they like to eat. Others, like my mom, can remeber names of people, thier birth dates, but always forget thier favorite foods, who they live with, and what thier favorite color is. | |