Dec 11 2003, 8:07 pm
In response to Karasu Kami
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Anarchy Robot
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It's ok. I feel sorry for you. I hope one day you will find meaning in your life so that we might spend eternal bliss with each other. i know that is a terrible thing to wish on your fellow man, but i wish it on you.
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God created humans in his likeness, right? So, if we're like God, then shouldn't we posess his ability to bring meaning to life? If not, then either he's a mean bastard, or life is truly meaningless. So, here are your choices:
Life is meaningless. You have to create your own meaning for your own life. God is a mean bastard (and thus your religion is wrong). Choose wisely. | |
You are quite correct. You have to choose to create your own meaning to life. What you want your life to be. Please stop trying to understand God and compare him as you would to humans. Even you can appreciate the fact that he is completly beyond (ha, BYOND..haha...) human understanding. You see, the reason I post all this, besides the fact that I find BYOND great and all, is because I honestly want people to hear what their government doesn't tell them. But not just that, I just want you guys to not be so messed up. I'm not trying to impose anything on you, I'm simply telling you what I believe, why I believe it, and then leaving the door for you to decide wether to go through it or not. You really didn't all have to be so mean and pick on me like that, but whatever.
I leave this with one final note that has absolutely nothing and everything to do with our topic: russia and/or china was never communist. the only form of government russia and/or china ever had while the US dubbed them "communist", was facism. why is that, i wonder? trying to instill a fear of communism by telling the masses that russia is communist when it was in fact facist? it's interesting how much things can get distorted. | |
The government doesn't tell me that I am currently being raped by interdimensional space monkeys. That doesn't make it true, however.
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That does it, I'm finding a copy of the Principia and reading it cover to cover. That has to the most sense anyone has made to me about religion, other than myself.
God exists, and it doesn't exist at the same time because it cannot be proven or disproven. And the end result? Nothing! Absolutely no difference whatsoever in the world. I like that :D /me considers switching to discordianism, assuming he understands it. | |
http://www.principiadiscordia.com
Here's what, to me, is one of the most relevant excerpts of Discordian cosmogeny. Note that even the existence of Eris, the putative goddess of Discordia, falls within the aneristic realm. If you can handle that, and make sense of this paragraph, you're in good shape. "In the beginning there was VOID, who had two daughters; one (the smaller) was that of BEING, named ERIS, and one (the larger) was of NON-BEING, named ANERIS. (To this day, the fundamental truth that Aneris is the larger is apparent to all who compare the great number of things that do not exist with the comparatively small number of things that do exist.)" | |
If God cant be proven, then why is there so much, "You must believe in a certian god, you must live this way", "And you must believe in Christianity in places like schools, and public" Im an atheist, and i follow the rules beacuse i dont want complete chaos. God doesnt mean anything too me. All it is, is just a way people try to make their lives be meaningful and explain why they are here.
We are here because we are here, it is Cosality, why do we really care about how we were created, we cant change it, so whats the point in understanding it. Although i still firmly believe that either a) The Big Bang Theory b) Our universe isnt the only one, and we were created by 1)another race b) a big bang. God's just makes us believe we have a purpose. Our purpose is what we make it. | |
That makes perfect sense. She who is in charge of things that exist does not herself exist and therefore is likely the charge of her larger sister . . . or something like that :P
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Those sites are all mildly amusing, but they do not begin to compare to:
http://www.christiananswers.com (I highly recommend the movie reviews. Go into the archives and look up "Starship Troopers" to see the reviewer's abject apology for imperiling anyone's soul by implying that brief nudity could ever be acceptible.) http://www.chick.com (Yes, it's a real Christian site. Some people get there, read the comic strips, and can't tell if it's a grotesque parody.) | |
Here's how I see things:
Morals are not handed to us from God or from our laws... Morals are nothing more than common-sense rules that all living things should live by... They are survival rules, an inherent and basic function of life... Life exists to create more life, nothing more, nothing less... It is truly meaningless, only existing to keep itself existing... This seems sad to some, but I don't see it that way... Why should it be sad? Heck, what's our other option? Life exists so we can prepare ourselves to live forever in an afterlife? How is that any better? I personally wouldn't even want to exist forever... What's the purpose of it? Having more time to experience more things and spend more time with loved ones would be nice, but an eternity? Not necessary... You'd run out of everything in a relatively short time... What would you have left to do? I'd hate it after a while... But anyways, since life's only true purpose is to continue going, then it must come pre-built with some basic rules to follow... "Instincts"... Let's take the most common example of "morals" as an example of my point... It is "wrong" or "evil" to murder people... But why is that? Simply because God said so? That makes no sense... Heck, if our mortal lives are so filled with suffering, and there's an eternal paradise waiting for us, then wouldn't killing someone being doing them a favor? lol No, it is wrong to kill others because that hinders the survival of our species as a whole... Simple as that... If we are to continue to exist, then killing each other is not a good practice... This is not a "law" handed to us by a higher being... This is a simple matter of logic... How about stealing? The same principle applies... If you take something from someone else, you are hindering their ability to survive... Take their money, they can't get food... Of course, it could be said that this drive for survival comes to us from God, and by association, these "morals" come to us from God... But it provides no proof either way... And I have to concede here that either viewpoint relies a lot on faith... I just prefer to place my faith in a more tangible answer... And I really have to disagree with your views on atheists... 1) I'm not suffering or sad with my life... I like the way things are, and I am not afraid of death... Blinking out of existence does not bother me in the least... And like I mentioned above, I don't think I'd actually like living forever, anyways... 2) I'm most definitely not a "bad person"... In fact, as conceited as this sounds, I'm a better person than most people in the world (although saying that doesn't help my case very much...lol) I live a good life... I am a kind, caring, generous person... I am very slow to anger, and I hate no one... I help anyone that I can, even at personal sacrifice... I am never cruel to anyone, and I do not tolerate cruelty around me... I wouldn't even dream of killing someone (unless absolutely necessary, in a "me or them" sort of situation)... I'm not a gossip, I'm not a backstabber, I'm not a manipulator... I am honest and trustworthy... I'm also the guy that everyone likes... My own opinion of myself might not mean much, but the collective opinions of those around me should mean something... Of course, some people around here might dislike me for various "wrongs" that I've done to them, but I'm not speaking of the internet when I say "everyone"... I mean in my life... The people who know me... Heck, just the other day at work one of the ladies (a very devout Christian, mind you) was speaking of how good of a person she thought I was... And everyone else was agreeing with her... In fact, I've never made my beliefs known to these people (not that I'm ashamed of them, but I'd just rather not get into such topics at work), and I'd guess that they have already assumed that I'm a good little Christian boy... Does any of that sound like I am a bad person? Yes, I have plenty of faults, as anyone else...but I am far from being a bad person... In fact, the only "crime" that you could convict me of is being a non-believer... If that alone makes me a "bad" person, then you're right... But I strongly disagree that it matters... Yes, I live a life "without God"... But I do not live a bad life... In fact, I live a better life than many believers... | |
I agree with the majority as to the origin of morality.
Most people have an "inner compass" a primal empathic link as to what is right and wrong. Or more truthfully and simply put, what hurts, and what doesn't hurt. Though you may not beleive that people have it in them when most people seem someone they are close to, or can relate too being beaten, raped, robbed or murdered, something inside of them say "oh s***, I wouldn't want that happening to me, or to them if I had a say..." Simply put, morals are the result of the subconcious link we have with one another, that allows us to "empathise" with each other. They were formed by seeing bad things happen to others, and realizing we wouldn't want that happening to us, or anyone else we even remotely care about. To wrap this part of my response up I'm going to point out that what I mean by "bad" is "painfull" and painfull is a near univeral constant. When you punch and aethesis in the stomach, it HURTS even if no one had ever told them that it was supposed too. (while physical pain can be subjective, it doesn't extend into the other areas of "bad" no masochist I've ever met enjoys having their food, clothing, housing, or other objects of welfare riped from them, and usually they are capable of realizing that other people don't "enjoy" the suffering they do.) I'd also like to comment, that in all likelyhood, morals came before devine mandate. Since we could feel pain, and empathize before we gained the ability to think in abstract terms, and thus form an image of a omnipresent, omnipotent, omnisentient creator, I'm confident in saying that we knew right and wrong before we knew "god" in all of it's many names. Another thing I would like to point out, is that ALL religions are an attempt to explain OUR nature, to quantify that inner knowledge which we seemed to have stumbled into. In nearly all early religions, semitism included, god was, and is an extention of either ourselves or nature (which we are part of in "natural religions") The Quabbalic creation myth puts it nicely, In the begining, god was everything, and everything was god. But god could not look upon itself, it had nothing to reflect itself in, and thus it was merely aware, rather than self aware. So god created a void within itself, within the void a universe was formed, populated with places and creatures, and people which reflected it's nature. So did god become self aware. That essentially says that god is in ALL things, living and unliving, "natural" and "unnatural" in short, to the Quabbalist, god is the essence of existance, not some old giant white dude sitting in a cloud watching you and waiting to beat your a**. (For those that don't know, Quabbalah is hermentic jeudaism, what they found when they looked closer. And as for a "lifetime of anquish and torment". If you would actually READ rather than accepting blindly what you are told... You would know that in the jewish tradition (and thus what Christianity, and Islam are based upon) there is no "Satan" or hell. The Jews have the biblical "Lucifer", who never fell from grace, and the little known Sammael, who was often depicted as evil, but was created by god, for the express purpose of testing and punishing human beings. Islam also has a similiar high angel named simply "Satan" who does the same as Sammael. (Both Sammael and Satan were created expressly for this purpose, and did their jobs with the consent of god.) Also in those traditions, there is no "hell" as christianity depects it, there is simply a place without god, no burning fires, no eternal anguish, no goat-legged demons torturing you forever. (Another misconception, "fallen angels" are usually creatures exiled for minor infraction of holy law, lowered to the status of humans, and in Islamic lore, Dijin were "certified testers".) As for you grounding your morality ONLY in your faith, I agree with Lexy, you're a danger. I'm also going to remind you that over zealous religious fanatics have done just as much evil and damage in this world as your average run of the mill secular madmen. | |
Risque? ...Very...you just opened Pandora's Box.
Religion does not necisarily define moral. Moral can be defined by self. but what is right and wrong one to one can differ from another. Moral can also be defined by laws, either set within a religion(Judaism as an example) or set by a government itself. I'm not going to touch on this topic anymore. (and in response to another reply...people can have a blind faith in anything and act without thought upon it) ~Cryptic | |
Karasu Kami wrote:
Your idiotic, just like the rest of the christians you try to force your beliefs on another person. Now you are just like Him, stating one group as one thing, I am a Christian, I do not force my system of beleifs on others, that is not a way to get someone to listen to you. PLus it becomes rather pointless and creates a break, as shown here. This is how it works, we believe what we want to believe, and you do the same. (Though some of us, like myself, don't believe in anything at all.)You're right, that is how it works. Though I hope beleiving in nothing at all works for you (and don't take that statement as being just based within religion or I will call you a moron :P) | |
Well, you are right ot a point (Without even mentioning it.)
Most christians try to force their beliefs and religions on other people as they hate to be the one who "isn't always best/right". This is exactly what created the (Retarded and boring) christian family (That everyone hates and never wants to be, except for christians.) And it does work for me, very well. I do not have to worry about dying and burning for eternity. I'm living in the moment instead of trying to figure out (And waste my time) why i exist, i really don't care why i do or what i meant for. Life is for living, not research. Research is for knowledge, and if you MUST know why you exist and make your life boring, then fine by me. | |
Anarchy Robot wrote:
Is there anyone on this whole site who is not a complete idiot? You preach and spout all sorts of things, yet make no suggestions to improving what ever it was you are whining about. If people feel the need to believe in a higher power, whether it is a rock or my laptop, that is their business, and more power to them! One thing you seem to fail to understand is that by saying the government is bad/corrupt/crazy/satanic, you are labeling all the Christians and Jews currently in those positions of power (as Hedgemissy earlier pointed out). What is that phrase? "The pot calling the kettle black"? It is the people of strong religious beliefs (and Christian ones at that) who are running the U.S. into the ground, not satanism. That is where you need to take your verbal crusade- not here in a community of gamers and developers who are more interested in having fun than pondering over issues about their beliefs. Also, while you are correct in using Off Topic for broaching these subjects, this does not give you or others the right to abuse the general community standards by calling people names ("idiot") or structuring you commentary to "look down your nose at people", which is nothing more than a form of supremacy, discrimination, or bigotry we don't need to fill the forums with. You've said what you wanted to say, and people have responded. Thread Closed. | |
