I am in my first period class and I Just read over an entire HTML help guide and all of it is sooo easy just because I understand how code works, there's not one thing I noticed that was really that difficult.
Thanks BYOND! :P
now... C language will be a little different...
ID:274575
 May 7 2002, 6:28 am
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Deadron wrote:
Jon Snow wrote: I guess there is also an important third thing: The number one cause of bugs in C-based code: string handling. Because strings are pointer-based and handled in a non-intuitive fashion (you have to account for an invisible null (or whatever) at the end of the string, which might not actually be there), you will forever be walking off the end of strings and corrupting memory, or engaging in one of several other hard-to-debug practices. No matter how good you are, you will do this frequently. Thankfully, most object-oriented systems fix this problem and the bugs never get created. | |
I hated that stuff when I took a C class, but our instructor made us learn them backward and forward, and it really paid off (first on the test, where something like 15 questions were an interlocked series of pointer questions...if you got one wrong, you got all the rest wrong!) ...Which is kinda ironic, when you think about it. =) My AP CompSci test (AB level) is in precisely two days. And, to top things off, I have had precisely twelve days in which to learn linked lists and pointers... on my own. I get the feeling I'm only going to get 3/5 or 4/5 on it. I'll utterly burn through all parts aside from pointers and linked lists, though. Of course, if the sample test is any indication, that means I'll burn through about one question and have to put on my thinking cap for the other 19. =P | |
Spuzzum wrote:
My AP CompSci test (AB level) is in precisely two days. And, to top things off, I have had precisely twelve days in which to learn linked lists and pointers... on my own. AB level? Is that the "Canadian education system" mimicking the British system or something? 12 days is definitely not enough time to cover pointers; they should be introduced no later than halfway through a programming course. (In a non-programming course, you shouldn't be covering those types of topics.) The possible caveats and uses of pointers are so many that it's important to understand them thoroughly, which takes time. Lummox JR | |
Ya my AB test is in 2 days. I am fine though.
I came into this class knowing pointers and trees.... so uhh yea. | |
AB level? Is that the "Canadian education system" mimicking the British system or something? Advanced Placement (which is, ironically, an American college board test) has two levels. A is the standard level, AB is the advanced level. Speaking bluntly, though... how would you have any knowledge as to how good or poor the school boards are, up here? Your quoting of the education system does imply that you don't think of it as education. (I don't either, but that's beside the point. ;-) ) 12 days is definitely not enough time to cover pointers; they should be introduced no later than halfway through a programming course. (In a non-programming course, you shouldn't be covering those types of topics.) The possible caveats and uses of pointers are so many that it's important to understand them thoroughly, which takes time. Yep. Fortunately I had the advantage that I've been learning them on my own time, at random intervals, for the better part of two years. I already knew how to make and declare and dereference pointers and all that jazz. I also knew how to declare and free memory on the stack. What I did not yet know were linked lists (though I reasonably know them now), trees (I still don't fully grasp these =P), and their actual benefits (that is, seeing them in action and observing a marked increase in efficiency -- I still haven't, matter-of-factly). What have confused me and still confuse me are arrays. Not STL vectors (which are, quite simply, array classes), but actual arrays. Vectors are all fine and dandy, but it'd be way better for me if I had the fine control and ability to use arrays in their raw form. | |
Along those lines, it's fun to be able to read over the source code of a lot of programs written in C and be able to get the gist of what they're doing, even if I wouldn't have a clue how to rewrite it :oP
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My AP CompSci test (AB level) is in precisely two days. Don't worry. I got a four on that test last year, and I've never programmed in C++ before, and had never taken a real programming course (I had taken one on programming microcontrollers, but that's different). If you're worried about pointers and linked lists.. don't be. There were only a few pointer questions when I took it, and none on linked lists. -AbyssDragon | |
AbyssDragon wrote:
My AP CompSci test (AB level) is in precisely two days. My general strategy for exams is not to care about what I get -- I just write my best answer, look it over, and move on to the next easiest question. Once I've filled out the test to the best of my ability, I give it a final skim-read before I hand it into the front and walk out the door calmly. I'm only nervous afterwards, when I reflect about how well I did. If you're worried about pointers and linked lists.. don't be. There were only a few pointer questions when I took it, and none on linked lists. You're sure you took the higher level AB test and not the standard level A test? | |
You're sure you took the higher level AB test and not the standard level A test? Whoops. You're right. It was the A test. I was thinking the two tests were AB and BC (thats how the AP Calculus test work), rather than A and AB. Silly College Board. -AbyssDragon | |
Spuzzum wrote:
Advanced Placement (which is, ironically, an American college board test) has two levels. A is the standard level, AB is the advanced level. Eh; I never took any AP courses, since I was homeschooled through high school. I'd never heard the term "AB level" before, though, but I have heard plenty of Brits talking about their "A-levels". The British education system is inscrutable to me. Speaking bluntly, though... how would you have any knowledge as to how good or poor the school boards are, up here? Your quoting of the education system does imply that you don't think of it as education. (I don't either, but that's beside the point. ;-) ) It's an anecdotal/stereotype joke. No doubt Canadian schools are little worse than American ones. But from what I've heard, roughly, they are that little bit worse. (If it makes you feel any better, I've heard a lot worse about the "Canadian health care system".) 12 days is definitely not enough time to cover pointers; they should be introduced no later than halfway through a programming course. (In a non-programming course, you shouldn't be covering those types of topics.) The possible caveats and uses of pointers are so many that it's important to understand them thoroughly, which takes time. Ah. Well that would be a huge advantage, then. I already knew how to make and declare and dereference pointers and all that jazz. I also knew how to declare and free memory on the stack. What I did not yet know were linked lists (though I reasonably know them now), trees (I still don't fully grasp these =P), and their actual benefits (that is, seeing them in action and observing a marked increase in efficiency -- I still haven't, matter-of-factly). Trees aren't usually an improvement over linked lists or hash tables. They're useful for a few situations, but not as many as you might think. What have confused me and still confuse me are arrays. Not STL vectors (which are, quite simply, array classes), but actual arrays. Vectors are all fine and dandy, but it'd be way better for me if I had the fine control and ability to use arrays in their raw form. Arrays aren't terribly hard--they're much simpler than linked lists. The real trick is just knowing that 1) it's of fixed length unless you reallocate it, and 2) you can't go off the end and you need to check indexes if there's even a slight possibility you might go off the end. Lummox JR | |
the problem is though everything I know about coding I have to teach myself, there's like nothing up here (class wise) for computers in Olympia WA... Sad but true. Unless I wanna learn Excel and powerpoint yay...
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It's an anecdotal/stereotype joke. No doubt Canadian schools are little worse than American ones. But from what I've heard, roughly, they are that little bit worse. My Geography teacher puts it the best way: "It's the place that kids go during the day so the parents don't have to babysit them while they go to work." I wish people prepared students for university rather than just listening to the parents' complaints that school is too tough for little Peewee. I might sound Fascist here, but the kids with 80 IQ aren't really going to accomplish anything, so why make school at their level? The only two courses in this school that have posed any challenge to me are IB Computer Science, and IB Math with Calculus. (I dunno how widespread or not the International Baccalaureate is in the States.) Oddly enough, my grades don't reflect academic challenge. I suck at math, I'm great at computer programming. I'm getting a 56% in IBMCS12A (math with calculus standard level) and a 90% in IBCSH12A (computer science higher level). Physics was an easy course for me, and the report card about a week before I dropped it set me at 49%. Of course, I did no homework, didn't read the textbook, and didn't do any lab assignments. (Two reasons: 1 - I hated the teacher. 2 - I hated the teacher's teaching style.) Geez, I keep flying off on random tangents. (If it makes you feel any better, I've heard a lot worse about the "Canadian health care system".) Well, we get what we pay for! (Read: our health care is free (aside from tax dollars, that is). =P) I'm pretty sure both our countries would benefit if we adopted some of each others' policies. Canada is locked into its "every Canadian should have the right to free health care" and America into its "health care is too expensive to give out for free". More services of ours should be made pay-to-play, more services of yours ought to be made free (with a corresponding system that takes some money away from the military budget and into the health care budget). Either that, or you can stay the same way, and we can raise our taxes. I wouldn't mind an extra 1% in taxes if it gave the school kids an education and upped the health care budget $500 million. ...Then again, the nurses and doctors would just go on strike again and demand any extras... (The School District 43 system (the one that encompasses Coquitlam, Port Moody, and Port Coquitlam -- that is, the Tri-Cities region near Vancouver) predicts a $17 million shortfall. That's ONE school district out of all 200 in B.C. I don't know how other provinces handle their school administration, but there's 12 other provinces and territories out there.) Wow, I once again flew off on a random tangent today. | |
the problem is though everything I know about coding I have to teach myself, there's like nothing up here (class wise) for computers in Olympia WA... Sad but true. Unless I wanna learn Excel and powerpoint yay... "Yay! Let's all become secretaries!" =P | |
The American "education" system is definitely not much better...
It's too standardized... Even with "advanced" courses available...it's still all basically the same for everyone...and everyone's judged by the same criteria and standards... That is a horrible way of handling education... Everyone isn't "standard"...and can't be judged based on rigidly standardized requirements and measures... Of course, the alternative would be too hard and expensive for them to implement and maintain, I suppose... So they'll just keep shoving square (and triangular, and pentagonal, and octagonal, and rectangular, etc) pegs into round holes... And a secondary problem caused by the standardization is that they decided to set the bar fairly low... That way, no one gets left behind... Sounds nice of them... But it's not good for those that are so far above the bar that the standard is boring and too easy... I never had to try in school... Even with "accelerated" courses, I still had a very easy time of things... I could sleep through classes and still carry a 3.7 or higher average (with weighted courses, I'd broken 4.0 numerous times)... I literally never studied...and very rarely had to take any work home with me... It gave me a bad case of w hat I like to call "HSSS" (Honor Student Slacker Syndrome)... I became extremely academically lazy because of it... And when I went off to college...I definitely was not prepared... I had no idea how to actually work at school...lol And my grades went for a nosedive... Which is why I am presently back at home...lol (don't worry about me, though... I plan on going back once I decide what exactly it is I want to go for... that was another part of my problem... I have no idea what I want to do...and therefore no goals to set and strive for... it made it extremely easy to get extremely lazy...lol) So I definitely say that the current system is highly flawed... (please note that I don't entirtely blame my failures on the system... I take full responsibility for not being responsible...lol but the system sure didn't help...) | |
Spuzzum wrote:
I wish people prepared students for university rather than just listening to the parents' complaints that school is too tough for little Peewee. I might sound Fascist here, but the kids with 80 IQ aren't really going to accomplish anything, so why make school at their level? If anything, lowering standards gives those kids less of a challenge, and less incentive to become more than what everyone tells them they are. The worst way to bolster the almighty self-esteem is to pander--yet most schools don't get that. The only two courses in this school that have posed any challenge to me are IB Computer Science, and IB Math with Calculus. (I dunno how widespread or not the International Baccalaureate is in the States.) I've never heard of it. Oddly enough, my grades don't reflect academic challenge. I suck at math, I'm great at computer programming. I'm getting a 56% in IBMCS12A (math with calculus standard level) and a 90% in IBCSH12A (computer science higher level). I intentionally took easy courses all through college (or at least, as easy as available) to fill out credit requirements for my degree, so I was able to maintain a 4.0 average for 10 semesters. (I changed majors and got two associate degrees; otherwise being in a community college for 5 years wouldn't make a lot of sense.) Physics was an easy course for me, and the report card about a week before I dropped it set me at 49%. Of course, I did no homework, didn't read the textbook, and didn't do any lab assignments. (Two reasons: 1 - I hated the teacher. 2 - I hated the teacher's teaching style.) Maybe you should fly off on secants instead. :) (If it makes you feel any better, I've heard a lot worse about the "Canadian health care system".) Our military was pretty nastily dismantled during the Clinton administration--part of the blame goes on Clinton, and part on the fact that this kind of stupid reduction of military resources happens after every war (in this case, the Gulf War). Our military today is about half the strength (at best) it needs to be, which is a big reason why we're in the mess we're in now. If anything, the military budget needs a healthy shot in the arm. But I don't see how health services in this country could be made free without bureaucratizing the whole thing, and therein lies the problem. Indeed, the main reason our health care system is screwed up is the amount of bureaucracy in medicine today. The other major reasons are out-of-control lawsuits and of course the baby boomers. Tort reform would do wonders--nay, miracles--for health care costs. Either that, or you can stay the same way, and we can raise our taxes. I wouldn't mind an extra 1% in taxes if it gave the school kids an education and upped the health care budget $500 million. ...Then again, the nurses and doctors would just go on strike again and demand any extras... Also the wrong solution; you need to reprivatize. Raising taxes is a bad idea; it takes Canada one step closer to being any given country in Europe. Europe is overtaxed and financially messed up, to the point where these days the EU tries to get member nations with lower tax rates to hike them up to reduce "unfair competition". (The School District 43 system (the one that encompasses Coquitlam, Port Moody, and Port Coquitlam -- that is, the Tri-Cities region near Vancouver) predicts a $17 million shortfall. That's ONE school district out of all 200 in B.C. I don't know how other provinces handle their school administration, but there's 12 other provinces and territories out there.) But you got back to the school topic, so I think that one can safely be called a secant. Lummox JR | |
If you are going to do anything substantial with C, or your class requires anything substantial, make sure you spend a lot of time on two concepts: pointers and linked lists.
I hated that stuff when I took a C class, but our instructor made us learn them backward and forward, and it really paid off (first on the test, where something like 15 questions were an interlocked series of pointer questions...if you got one wrong, you got all the rest wrong!)
Thankfully I never deal with pointers anymore.