ID:274525
 Apr 14 2002, 6:41 pm
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Why is it that when another respected byond coder makes a game, all the other well known and respected byonders flock to it? I never see them join other games to try them out. Example: silkwizard just released Proelium. I've been playing it whenever it's hosted, and I've seen people like Foomer, Leftley, Zilal, Lummox JR and other gurus come and play it for a long time or just come to check it out. I've never seem these type of people join games that are new from non-gurus, even if they aren't fan games. MLAAS draws gurus too. Why would you join Silk Wizard's or Skysaw's games to try them out, but not others?
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Apr 14 2002, 7:13 pm
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Nadrew
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I don't know if I'm considered a "guru" but sometimes I'll go in and check out newer peoples' games, but most of the time I play Lexy, Skysaw, and that sort's games -- because I can expect the game to be fun and not full of total morons.
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I've never seem these type of people join games that are new from non-gurus, even if they aren't fan games. That must mean they're not doing it! Get 'em! I try any new game that looks appealing. But I certainly don't stick around if I don't enjoy playing it. Z | |
I agree I've barely seen ANY GUru's in playing my game ever really. I think it's just because they have their own little "club" and if you're not in it you're not cool haha. Nah I don't know but I have a feeling alot of them hold grudges and are still being little kids about what happened between me and Lexy.
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Why is it that when another respected byond coder makes a game, all the other well known and respected byonders flock to it? Simple, when a respected byond coder makes a game, people can assume that the game will be good. Respected BYOND programmers can go past the point of making the game work properly, and can progress to the point of actually making the game fun! Most everyone else is busy learning the language, so their games won't be as good due to their lack of ability to make what they want. One can only stand so many poorly-made games before they start avoiding them. Why would you join Silk Wizard's or Skysaw's games to try them out, but not others? Like Zilal said, why stick around on a game that's not fun? Skysaw's game apparently proved to be fun, so it's drawn a lot of people, guru or not. I'm not especially a fan of DWO, but it still has a reputation for being a well-made game, so naturally I'd be inclined to try if it were made by someone who has already created some good ones. Here's some quick scanning examples: Warriors of Power - generic name, probably DBZ, nobody logged in... never heard of the author (or they're a known newbie), probably won't be very well done and buggy. Maybe I'd be able to get away with abusing a few bugs that are commonly made by new programmers, but aside from that I can't expect anything fun. I might try it out once when I've got nothing better to do, but I'm not expecting much. Lode Wars - Ooh, a game Leftley made. Must be good, I'll go try it out. | |
Jon Snow wrote:
I agree I've barely seen ANY GUru's in playing my game ever really. I think it's just because they have their own little "club" and if you're not in it you're not cool haha. Nah I don't know but I have a feeling alot of them hold grudges and are still being little kids about what happened between me and Lexy. I can't speak for other people who might be considered "gurus", but in case anyone considers me to be one, I'll let you know my thoughts. At the moment, I spend relatively little time actually playing BYOND games. Why? Not because I don't like playing BYOND games. It's because I have a job that eats up about 50 hours a week; projects I'm working on for BYONDscape; projects I'm working on for DDT; projects I'm working on for myself; and even a few things going on that are unrelated to BYOND in any way! When I do go looking for games, more often than not I check out "Games Live". I don't care who the author of a game is nearly as much as I care about the description in the Hub. If I read one description that says "Snipers play a suspenseful game of cat-and-mouse in the bombed-out wreckage of Stalingrad" and a second description that says "PLAY THIS GAME ITS K00L", well, I'll try the first one. And sometimes, instead of looking at Games Live, I'll look at my friends list and see if anyone's online. If someone is, maybe I'll join in. That doesn't mean my mind is closed to making new friends; it just means I tend to gravitate toward the familiar, which puts me in the same group as about 99.9999 percent of the human race. BYOND has already grown far, far past the point where anyone can get to know every player personally. Fortunately, if someone I know is playing a game, chances are that there will also be people I don't know playing the same game, which means that even if I always played only the games that my "friends list" was playing, I'd still get plenty of chances to become acquainted with new people. And when I see what a new person says in the game, three things can happen. I can decide he's a jerk or an idiot; I can decide he's all right; or I can put on my Senator Palpatine hood and think "We will watch his career with great interest." I'd say about 90 percent of the people I've seen in games fall at various points within the "all right" range. As for grudges, I don't tend to hold grudges. If someone seems like a jerk now, he might turn out all right later. That's not just empty talk, either -- I've seen it happen with many people in BYOND already, including some who I'd consider to be "gurus" nowadays. If I think player X is a jerk, and then player X starts displaying a pattern of non-jerky behavior, I can change my assessment; I've grown out of many jerky behaviors in my life, and I hope to grow out of many more, so I'm willing to extend the same understanding to others. Regarding games, I know there are a lot of good games out there that I just haven't seen yet -- I just ran across a new one today that wowed me. And I hope I'll get the chance to try them all sooner or later. But there will only be a certain number that I can really dig into and master. That's a tough break for me, but it's good for BYOND, because it means that lots of people are doing lots of good work. Well, that's much more than I intended to write... time for bed! | |
I object to this. Quite a few of the BYOND vets I see logging in to my tests don't actually know they're mine, and ditto for when I log blindly into a game with a name that interests me. I also frequently see other "gurus" logging in to other games at random--sure, maybe only briefly, but most of these people don't seem to do an incredible amount of playing anyways.
The other simple fact is that gurus tend to be the people with more experience, which usually translates into quality. I've still seen a couple great games from people I'd never heard of, but that does tend to be a little more rare. | |
Guru or not I produce a lot of stuff an am often copied! :P Even by the so called GURUs.. I play anything thats not DBZ for me if you've seen one you seen them all, though I have been known to go into a DBZ game and help someone out with new graphics. Also I pop in to newbie developer games and offer snippets of code to help them out then move on. But for me and all the people who constantly ask me for help with their games, I've just got soo much to do in my own project I don't have much time for others. But I offer help when and where I can.
LJR | |
Libraries that few understand and some diplomatic answers don't make me a guru but...
I join a game for a moment's entertainment. I mention this because there are a lot of games where you build a character for a long duration. If I see a character creation screen and I don't have any assurance of the quality, such as knowledge of the author, I logout. Giving someone new a try is one thing. Having to commit a lot of time to do so is another. Meanwhile, many guru games either last single sessions or are different enough that playing will at least be an interesting experiment. If I don't like the crowd, I can leave and come back. If I like the game, I'm usually not going to get that experience anywhere else. ...Yes, the ability to spectate/lurk is a bonus. ;) PS: I've seen rude people come into guru games and nag the guru for help with code. Can you imagine willingly subjecting yourself to hordes of people doing that and lacking the power to boot them? | |
Jon... no one would even remember what happened between me and you if you didn't keep bringing it up. In case you haven't noticed, "New person offending Lexy and spawning a huge fight thread" is not exactly a novel phenomenon around here. Neither is "Established person offending Lexy and spawning a huge fight thread". Fighting with me doesn't put the mark of Cain upon your forehead... just the mark of Joe or Jane Blow.
Would you like to see some of my threads where I argued with people who were, or are now, members of the semi-official group called "gurus"? How about Lummox? Or English? Those are some pointless page-spanners. Or Nadrew? Or Foomer? Or Skysaw? I've had some pretty senseless semantic arguments with him. How about Spuzzum? He made the same mistake you did, baiting me about my lesbianism. I can say honestly and with some satisfaction that I made him regret it, and I can say with even more satisfaction and a bit of arrogance that I think he came out of the experience a better person. If there was any sort of clique on this board devoted to excluding people I've got into a fight with, no one would be talking to anyone. If anyone isn't talking to you, or helping you, or playing your game, it's got nothing to do with me. If anyone is talking to you, or helping you, or playing your game, it's got nothing to do with me, either. You're not my archenemy. You're not even my enemy. You're just somebody who ticked me off once. When you seemed to come back to the forum after a long absence, I didn't come after you. In fact, since you didn't seem to have noticed that I'd changed keys, I had hoped the whole issue would stay a non-issue. When a couple of people seemed to be jumping on your case, I privately asked them to stop, and they did. Not because I have any sort of immense personal power here, but because they were my friends and respected my wishes. You might recall I even answered some of your questions on the code boards. Anyways, this is beyond the point and already ten times as long as I'd intended. Bottom line: if thinking it's only because of my great negative influence that some people don't seem to flock to you and your winning personality makes you feel better, go ahead and think it. But please, keep it to yourself, or at least off this board. This soap opera crap just doesn't belong here. | |
I don't come to BYOND to play games... I come here to make them. I really only join a game when I get a strong enough recommendation from someone whose opinion I trust.
For instance, the other week, Sariat shot me a page that said something like, "Lexy, come check out this game, it rules." I looked at my pager, and half the names on there, both the ones on my list, and the ones that were watching me, were logged into the same game as Sariat: Lode Wars. Now, it turned out this game wasn't Sariat's game. It was Leftley's. Did I know that when I joined? No. I just knew that someone I knew recommended the game, and that judging from my pager, other people agreed. It's not even that I know Sariat that well... but I see him often enough that a) I'm interested in his opinion and b) I wouldn't want to offend him. Sariat also knows from experience (as do most people who page me) that I consider my BYOND time to be "me time," and if I don't feel like chatting, I'll either be brusque or ignore the pages altogether... the fact that he still paged to give me his recommendation told me he was being serious. Anyways, I think I've played MLAAS exactly once. I know that's how many times I played DWO. I logged into Kemet three or four times, and when I get more time, I mean to go back and check it out again now, especially as I understand there's a lot more stuff. Why Kemet? Because LordJr is respected, or because I like him and agree with everything he says? Hardly. It's because I'm interested in Egyptian mythology (Thoth is my all-time favorite male deity.) Simple answer for why anyone goes into any game: because it interests them. [EDIT] I should say that I actually have played one BYOND game again and again: Lexiconomy. That's because it has great re-play value... the action is entirely player-driven, and it's a different game every time. Oh, and also because I only lose games if I come in midway through a round. I'm vain enough to like any game I can win easily. | |
just so you know, your one of the top "Gurus". So now you know and i knew because you help somany people on these forums you are one of the best know people around.
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Ok, im only well know but not a guru (or at least doubt it), but i do know that i check out almost all the new games on byond besides DBZ. I have been known to help a noob game into a real game at times and i never will refuse a **nice person asking for help.
**nice person=Some one that wants help not my code book(i dont have a real code book its a metafor, but i should make one) I have made many games that many people like and you know whats funny. I went to a game called "The best game ever"(you can guess by the little it sucked and it did) and i told the dude that made it "You realy need to work on this" or something like that and he replyed "Can you do better" i almost cracked up laughing. I mean he had smiley faces that when super sayian. Come on. See thats why we dont like new peoples games, but like say leftley has 2 or 3 great games so i know if i go into his games(even if i have never seen them before) they will be great, and leftley has only been around(from what i know) a few weeks to a month.And LordJR, i have only played Kelem and Star-Trader but they both rocked so if i see one of his games i will know they are good. | |
I am usually too busy to check out the games as I am either coding or something like that, but when I do, I often dont go into games if I know that they are newbie games, because most of the time when I do I am nagged on to help the owner of the game fix his bugs or get rid of the errors in the new version that he/she cant use because of massive warnings/errors. I have a whole folder in my bin called "other peoples games" because many people know me and trust me, so they just send me there whole game via email wanting my help. I must say that it is nice to know that so many people trust me and want my help, but I rarely have time to work on anything of my own anymore because I have been pulled to deep into other peoples games. If I joined a game by someone like Spuzzum or Lex, I could go in without trying to think of what I will say if the owner says "Hey LODU!" "I have a problem here, can you help?". I see that line a lot.
I am not saying that I do not like to help these people. I like to help people on my spare time. I help a lot of them and am happy that I can be of assistance, but there are so many people that do that that I cannot help them all, and it just gets annoying sometimes when I am busy and keep getting bugged to fix a bug. Lodu p.s. I am by no means a guru. | |
Scoobert wrote:
Ok, im only well know but not a guru (or at least doubt it), but i do know that i check out almost all the new games on byond besides DBZ. I have been known to help a noob game into a real game at times and i never will refuse a **nice person asking for help. Leftley has been here at BYOND alot longer than I and I started here around a year back. Not with this key, but with another. While I am here, I will post my opinion on things thats going on. I have altogether three projects. One I discontinued because I dont know what to do with it. One that I am on the verge of deleting from the hub permanently because it stinks and it shouldnt be there in the first place. Aswell as my newest project which I am doing. Still in Early Alpha but everyone who has been there has liked what has been done so far, besides one guy who came in and said the following: "these icons suxors and r crud!!!!" I replied with "Well if you can do better I would like to see you try.", So he said "HAHAHA I CAN DO BETTER!!! I CAN REMAKE THEM IN A SECOND!!!" (I would like to say that these icons I am talking about are Foomers turf icons, so in turn you could guess why I was laughing my head off when he left). Well, it went on for awhile where he was constantly saying he was better and could do better. So I asked him to show me something better and I havent seen him for just over a week. I did ask Lexy once to come and do alittle test for me and she did aswell as that I ended up getting afew ideas from her too which where very useful. I know for a fact that I wouldnt want to get on Lexy's bad side again because I kinda use to think I could verbally take on anyone and I saw her name and thought I would have a go at her for nothing. In-turn, you know who won and who lost :P But I learnt alot from her and I am glad I am not what I used to be because when I looked back on what I used to be I saw how pathetic I was. (Oooops, babbling about crap here :D) Anyway, my point is that when someone joins a game first intension is to see what it is and see if it is any good. Unless you are just testing for someone. Lee | |
Untitled_Boy wrote:
Why is it that when another respected byond coder makes a game, all the other well known and respected byonders flock to it? I never see them join other games to try them out. Example: silkwizard just released Proelium. I've been playing it whenever it's hosted, and I've seen people like Foomer, Leftley, Zilal, Lummox JR and other gurus come and play it for a long time or just come to check it out. I've never seem these type of people join games that are new from non-gurus, even if they aren't fan games. MLAAS draws gurus too. Why would you join Silk Wizard's or Skysaw's games to try them out, but not others? I never referred to anyone here as a guru. I've been on byond for over 2 years, since I was 11 or 10 I think, and have not really enjoyed any game made by byond. It was either very boring or would lag every 5 seconds for another 10 seconds. I have to agree with the one person who posted saying that they all hang around with other people who are beleived to be "well-respected". They are considered the center of byond basicly, and can just about taunt/flame/whatever to just about anyone new to this. I have never once been thought of as a "guru" or anything of the likes, probably because I can't finish anything of mine once it's half good. I am also probably one of the few free ware writers on byond now. | |
Untitled_Boy wrote:
Why is it that when another respected byond coder makes a game, all the other well known and respected byonders flock to it? I never see them join other games to try them out. Example: silkwizard just released Proelium. I've been playing it whenever it's hosted, and I've seen people like Foomer, Leftley, Zilal, Lummox JR and other gurus come and play it for a long time or just come to check it out. I've never seem these type of people join games that are new from non-gurus, even if they aren't fan games. MLAAS draws gurus too. Why would you join Silk Wizard's or Skysaw's games to try them out, but not others? I think people simply tend to congregate in games that others like them happen to like. If I see a few people whose opinion I really value logged into a game, I'll usually check it out--though perhaps not for long, depending on what I'm already doing. For example, yesterday I saw lots of people logged into Imperial Realms. I joined and it turned out to be a pretty fun medieval kingdom simulation, very much like the text-based simulators of old. (I was told it was one of Lexy's games; don't know if that's true or not. It was fun.) I was in Proelium briefly the other day but didn't stick around too long; at the time I was programming. A lot of games for me have gone like that. I checked out Bombard and found out it was one of Leftley's games; later I checked out Laser Wars and found he'd made that as well. Last weekend while I was hosting Incursion, someone mentioned Lode Wars, which is another Leftley game, so I went to check that out when I got a chance. There are quite a few games I haven't checked out yet. One particularly glaring omission is My Life As A Spy. I've heard nothing but praise for the game, yet I haven't gone in yet--I think partly I'm a bit concerned there might be a steep learning curve (though knowing Skysaw, he's probably smoothed that out) and partly because I spend too much time playing long involved games already. (Lode Wars in particular is a time-cruncher.) But anyway, there it is: Like attracts like. It's the same reason DBZers tend to congregate in each other's games--though they'll also show up just about anywhere else, I've found. I think the so-called gurus check out games made or frequented by others who are similarly regarded mostly because they tend to have similar taste in games. For myself, I usually hope for these people to show up in my game. Mostly that's because they tend to put a little more thought into gameplay, and my game is very much a strategy game--but also it's because I'd really like to hear what they have to say about it. There are still a few I haven't seen whose evaluation would mean a lot to me, so I still hope to see them: Zilal and Lexy, to name a couple. A few others were in once or twice. But then, Incursion isn't to everyone's taste, and it's not always up when certain people are most available. Lummox JR | |
I actually agree with this in some ways, but disagree in others. Most of the guru's are friends with each other, so thats why they play thier games. But they never tend to play games whose friends don't play. There are alot of reasons though. And I think there is a clique in BYOND but anybody can get it by: a) respecting people b) obeying the rules and c) being friendly/good person . For instance, I don't think all of the "guru's" have joined in my game. Some did, but not all. Its just what appeals to them. Here are some that have joined my game of the top of my head: Zilal (Once), Skysaw(Once), Enlgish comes on regularly, Gazoot checks out the game, Gughunter checks it out when he can, Shadowdarke comes on every now and then,hmmm thats all off the top of my head. But I never seen any other ones join my game. Its probably just their preference. I don't play games just becuase they are from gurus, if I see a game title that looks interesting I check it out. I played Proliem or whatever its called, and I liked it, but I logged out after 20 minutes. I also played Lode wars for 20 minutes, but I logged out. I still check both games out, its just what is fun to me and whats not. I can stay on MLAAS for 1-3 hours, becuase its pretty fun, even though I can't really gain much level, I just pick on newbies and leftley. But they actually do kill me. Mostly leftly :P
-ST | |
Untitled_Boy wrote:
Why is it that when another respected byond coder makes a game, all the other well known and respected byonders flock to it? I never see them join other games to try them out. Example: silkwizard just released Proelium. I've been playing it whenever it's hosted, and I've seen people like Foomer, Leftley, Zilal, Lummox JR and other gurus come and play it for a long time or just come to check it out. I've never seem these type of people join games that are new from non-gurus, even if they aren't fan games. MLAAS draws gurus too. Why would you join Silk Wizard's or Skysaw's games to try them out, but not others? For the first part of your question, I think it's obvious... if someone has a reputation as a good coder, of course we're going to check their new game out! If they have a reputaion for making fun and interesting games, then there's a good chance the new one is going to be fun and interesting too. I've peeked into other games from time to time as well, though there never seems to be anything interesting up when I have play time. I'm tired of RPGs, so I usually don't stay for more than 10-15 minutes just to see the quality. Fan games don't get me as a visitor at all. The remaining interesting sounding ones, I'll look at, but polished games are few and far between. I usually end up in a pre-pre-pre-alpha game, where I have no idea what the final vision is. It also helps if there is a description in the hub. There are too many games hosted that don't say a word about what it is. I figure they are too raw to be tested, and I stay away. | |
