I hate reading books. If i wanted a story, i would play a role playing game. Because a majority of them let you change the story and let you be part of it. The final fantasies dont, but games like D&D which are HUGE role playing games do. Half the time my friends and i play them, we dont even have combat. Most the time we try to play out our characters to their full potention, such as my cousins character who is a really really dumb barbarian and cant even count. I remember the time we were at a shop and he tried to buy something. WOO WEE it was hilarious!
FIREking
Hmm, well, the RPG class contains a wide range of games. Most of them aren't managed by a Game Master, so you are forced to go where the story takes you. Far more often than not, that story contains an extensive amount of killing.
| |
Geo. The thing is, when you are thinking of killing you are thinking of endless parades of just clicking a button to kill something. In Everquest, killing has been made strategically hard and fun to do, especially on raids. You have to lure the guardian drakes from veeshans peek away, mesmerize them as you go towards Veeshan. You must have a rogue pick locks to get through it, etc. etc. Group fighting just raises everything to another level, and its not really possible to explain it without you trying it for yourself.
On Raids, it is about killing, yes. But its about fun as well, and it is. For some people(New people I expect) its like disarming a bomb. If you make a wrong move, you may risk blowing up the bomb and killing everyone in the building before you get to the golden chamber with riches. I may not be the best to describe this, due to my limited vocabulary and limited experience with raids. FIREking, are you telling me that you think Final Fantasy is seriously a roleplaying game? Ugh, what a all too common missconception(Although some would defy that the term RPG has been redefined). Roleplaying is taking the role of a character in a story, and getting involved in that story(Indirectly as much as directly). It also involves having some free bonds as to what you want to do. Final Fantasy, and RPGs like it follow a rugged storyline of which you have no choice but to follow to advance in the game. Can you choose to kill Tifa in FF7? Can you choose to side with Sephiroth, or mayby instead of slaying that big dragon flying around and getting flare on monster skills, using your skillful charismatic diplomacy powers to charm it to your side? Alathon | |
WRONG. Apparently you didnt play any of the final fantasies that much. All of them FOCUS ON THE STORY! If you think they dont, you are CRAZY! All FF games have a begining cut scene, an ending cutscene, and all between those are 50% story, which draws you into the game, and 50% fighting, which also draws you into the story. Therefore i say the story is more focussed on than the fighting. Well, I've only played Final Fantasy VII. And it did have an interesting (if goofy) story, and the graphics and music ranged from good to fantastic. But the fighting... oh, Lord, make it stop! Noooooo! What irritated me about Final Fantasy VII -- and has so far prevented me from taking a chance on any further installments in the series -- was the damned random combats that popped up about once every 15 seconds. Pick a move, execute it, wait 10 or 20 or 40 seconds for the keen spell effect animation to unfold, wait for your next turn, repeat. I would've been a lot more forgiving if it weren't for all those areas where, just to get from one edge of the screen to another, you have to go through five or six random combats. I would've also been more forgiving if the combats weren't randomly generated, and having a few victories on a given screen reduced the number you'd have to face the next time you walked through that same area (backtracking being a fairly common thing in FFVII). It seemed to me that all those random combats were just padding to make a 20-hour game into a 40-hour game. Parasite Eve had the same problem. I might try to finish that one day, actually, just because I'm curious to see how it ends. (I made it to the last boss in FFVII, and got my butt kicked repeatedly, having to sit through that minute-long boss spell animation each time. Finally, I did a little looking on the Internet and found out I'd missed obtaining a spell that's pretty much necessary to finish the game.) If you disagree, please contact your local mental hospital. Yeah, right, like I want to go back there! | |
Alathon wrote:
Geo. The thing is, when you are thinking of killing you are thinking of endless parades of just clicking a button to kill something. In Everquest, killing has been made strategically hard and fun to do, especially on raids. You have to lure the guardian drakes from veeshans peek away, mesmerize them as you go towards Veeshan. You must have a rogue pick locks to get through it, etc. etc. Group fighting just raises everything to another level, and its not really possible to explain it without you trying it for yourself. ok, so first you have to find a monster, then lure it away from any others, then start fighting. Now, I cant remember the fighting part well, so all I can picture fighting is you click and your characters starts attacking over and over or until you click again. Strategy? The AI isn't the games strong point. If I wanted strategy I could play Half-life, Arcanum, D&D, or heck even Return To Castle Wolfenstien. On Raids, it is about killing, yes. But its about fun as well, and it is. For some people(New people I expect) its like disarming a bomb. If you make a wrong move, you may risk blowing up the bomb and killing everyone in the building before you get to the golden chamber with riches. so, if you dont do something correct, the place explodes? that is what I am translating. one more thing, is there any puzzles you have to complete at a raid? example: Door is locked, there are 2 torches in the small stone room which barely lights the room, one torch is out. Do you have to light/pull the unlighten torch to be able to make the door open? Final Fantasy, and RPGs like it follow a rugged storyline of which you have no choice but to follow to advance in the game. Can you choose to kill Tifa in FF7? Can you choose to side with Sephiroth, or mayby instead of slaying that big dragon flying around and getting flare on monster skills, using your skillful charismatic diplomacy powers to charm it to your side? ok, I have to reply to this. I beleive any Final Fantasy is a really great role playing game. Infact, I only play them for the story. When I get to almost any place I have a hard time on, I really want to beat it to go on with the story. Also, what you are talking about is a Free-Style (I call it that atleast) RPG like arcanum. A rpg is a role playing game. You play a certain character and go throughout what they do. On acranum, sure you can pursuade the main boss to let you help destroy all of arcanum, but there are consequences that I wont tell, it will ruin the story. If you are looking for a rpg that you can kill anyone, sell any items that involve the main quest, side with the bad guy, play a evil/good character, or not fight at all and be able to pursuade everyone, then play Arcanum. | |
That is true. When I think RPG I think Dungeons & Dragons. however, when I think of certain games I get differant results:
Return to Castle Wolfenstien:zombie Everquest: Kill Arcanum:Free-style Dungeons&Dragons:Free-style Baldur'sGate2:Story | |
Acually, FF1(nes) and 2(nes) were mostly fighting based @.@ 2 had a story, but not much of one *L* and 1's story was about as in-depth as DQ1 ^^;;
Actually, I think the quests in dq1 were a little bit more story based then ff1 @.@ Oh well *L* Most of what I remember about ff1 was that it was damn hard to beat it with a party of 4 white mages ^^;; I still have that kickinga round here somewhere @.@ Elorien | |
Geo wrote:
ok, so first you have to find a monster, then lure it away from any others, then start fighting. Now, I cant remember the fighting part well, so all I can picture fighting is you click and your characters starts attacking over and over or until you click again. Strategy? The AI isn't the games strong point. If I wanted strategy I could play Half-life, Arcanum, D&D, or heck even Return To Castle Wolfenstien. Fighting isnt clicking one button and leaving it after level 2 for most classes. It takes skill to kill something (For the most part, thinking of necromancers slapping a snare, fear and pet on a monster and just sitting down and waiting), especially the higher you go. As for strategy, it has nothing to do with the AI(Atleast, thats not what I mean). The AI in everquest is undoubtedly bad, made even worse by completely screwed up pathing in some zones. Im talking about luring monsters away without getting adds(More monsters taging along), making sure it doesnt run away and bring friends, making sure you keep everyone possible alive, not to generate too much hate towards the monster if you arent meant to tank, and things like that. so, if you dont do something correct, the place explodes? that is what I am translating. one more thing, is there any puzzles you have to complete at a raid? example: Door is locked, there are 2 torches in the small stone room which barely lights the room, one torch is out. Do you have to light/pull the unlighten torch to be able to make the door open? What im saying is, wrong moves can hurt, and be dangerous in the game. It takes skill and practice to kill things in the higher end without getting someone killed. On raids it can be deadly(Although not beyond a medium of repair, 96% of exp lost at death can be regained through a cleric ressurecting you) if someone, per example doesnt keep a drake snared lest it run, find its friends and wake up Veeshan. These puzzles would be pointless in a multiplayer game, because of one thing. Spoiler sites. In 2 days, there would be a detailed walkthrough of which lever to pull, and the shortest way to finish a puzzle. There are however quests you have to do, to get keys and things like that to enter places(Like Veeshans Peek, or Howling Stones), which usually involve long quests. ok, I have to reply to this. I beleive any Final Fantasy is a really great role playing game. Infact, I only play them for the story. When I get to almost any place I have a hard time on, I really want to beat it to go on with the story. Also, what you are talking about is a Free-Style (I call it that atleast) RPG like arcanum. A rpg is a role playing game. You play a certain character and go throughout what they do. On acranum, sure you can pursuade the main boss to let you help destroy all of arcanum, but there are consequences that I wont tell, it will ruin the story. If you are looking for a rpg that you can kill anyone, sell any items that involve the main quest, side with the bad guy, play a evil/good character, or not fight at all and be able to pursuade everyone, then play Arcanum. I did not say the games had a bad story, you wouldnt be able to drag me away the first time I played through FF3/6 or FF7. What im saying is, that you have absolutely no choice as to how the game ends. Aeris alwease dies in FF7, and the plate in Midgaard alwease falls, nomatter what you do. Im not exactly sure how to put it, but I dont feel that roleplaying following such a strict set of rules and a story which ends the exact same way every time. I believe that your decisions in the game should inflict the outcome(Not just through seeing the ending movie, or seeing the gameover screen). | |
Geo wrote:
Thats the thing, that game revolves basicly around killing and not much else. What game doesn't? MLAAS does. Tanks does. The only difference is that EverQuest has a lot more people and things to do. You can say that MLAAS has gathering documents. Yeah, EverQuest has trade skills. MLAAS has traps. EverQuest has spells. Tanks has building. EQ has leveling. They're both to improve your being in the game. | |
skill to kill something Now, this is my last reply to this, no matter what. I feel as if I am arguing, and I will stop once I finnaly ask a couple more questions. Ok, do you mean skill, as in player skill, your your characters skill such as swordfighting? These puzzles would be pointless in a multiplayer game, because of one thing. Spoiler sites. In 2 days, there would be a detailed walkthrough of which lever to pull, and the shortest way to finish a puzzle. There will always be spoilers, if anyone doesn't like spoilers, then they dont need to see them. Besides, there are already spoilers that tell you the easiest way to get really high levels. Cheaters/Hackers also ruin games, but what can you do about that on everquest besides reporting every single one to some admin? I did not say the games had a bad story, you wouldnt be able to drag me away the first time I played through FF3/6 or FF7. What im saying is, that you have absolutely no choice as to how the game ends. Aeris alwease dies in FF7, and the plate in Midgaard alwease falls, nomatter what you do. Im not exactly sure how to put it, but I dont feel that roleplaying following such a strict set of rules and a story which ends the exact same way every time. I believe that your decisions in the game should inflict the outcome(Not just through seeing the ending movie, or seeing the gameover screen). Sound like your type of game would be arcanum...waita-ARIES DIES?! Really? Noooo! There goes a good amount of the story. wish there was a spoiler alert :(. | |
Um, if you haven't played FF7 up to the part where the certain someone dies, where have you been in the last decade? =P
| |
Hey, I only borrowed it for one day and only got to cosmo canyon underground. only reason why I replied wasthis doesn't have to do with a other certain game.
| |
Wait a second, if you have a problem with turn based RPG's then you should have checked your sources before you even played FFVII. Due to the fact that all main FF's (1-10) are turn based, not to mention the few others (Example: FFMQ).
(I know this post is quite a few days late, but I had to say it ;) ) ~KnightRen | |
Geo wrote:
Now, this is my last reply to this, no matter what. I feel as if I am arguing, and I will stop once I finnaly ask a couple more questions. I agree, this is getting a little dragged out with little to no point really. Ok, do you mean skill, as in player skill, your your characters skill such as swordfighting? Player skills There will always be spoilers, if anyone doesn't like spoilers, then they dont need to see them. Besides, there are already spoilers that tell you the easiest way to get really high levels. Cheaters/Hackers also ruin games, but what can you do about that on everquest besides reporting every single one to some admin? Good point, sadly due to the playerbase this would probably be ruined. Anyone who didnt know how to get into this and that zone, and solve puzzle x and y wouldnt be allowed to even go on a raid, or would be told immediately how. Sound like your type of game would be arcanum...waita-ARIES DIES?! Really? Noooo! There goes a good amount of the story. wish there was a spoiler alert :(. Doh, sorry, I expected someone who is talking about the definition of roleplaying games to have played through FF7. Alathon | |
If I wanted a story, I'd read a book, not play an RPG.