Hi, i was wondering, as there seems to be a bit of a lack of new, original or exiting games on byond nowadays would anyone be interested in using a developers wiki if i set one up?
It would have things like code snippets with explanations of the code, all the functions explained, etc. etc.
And of course, because it's a wiki the code and the descriptions can only be improved by others so it would be so much easier for people to learn code and not only learn code but learn good coding practices, read WHY x code is more efficient than y code, etc.
Just an idea I'm throwing out there, i would like opinions.
(I realise I didn't sell this idea as well as I could have.)
ID:265860
 Aug 14 2008, 2:34 pm
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Aug 14 2008, 2:47 pm
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A.T.H.K
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Would this just be like the Dream Makers guild but in a wiki format...
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A long time ago, there used to exist something similar to what you mention. It was called the ByondBwicki. It's not here anymore because it was ultimately used for what it wasn't intended for: people were making pages for their keys, random stuff (there was even a page full of marquees), and thus was taken down. There were attempts at creating a new Bwicki that would hopefully serve it's initial purpose, but none of them really became popular.
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Unknown Person wrote:
A long time ago, there used to exist something similar to what you mention. It was called the ByondBwicki. It's not here anymore because it was ultimately used for what it wasn't intended for: people were making pages for their keys, random stuff (there was even a page full of marquees), and thus was taken down. There were attempts at creating a new Bwicki that would hopefully serve it's initial purpose, but none of them really became popular. I think blogs are better for this kind of thing anyway if there was a byond controlled blog that acted like a wiki but with moderators controlling what goes on it, but then again just another thing for BYOND to worry about and another thing to control which not much man power. | |
Like UP said, that concept just doesn't seem to work well in BYOND. With the old Bwicki, the some entries that did actually have useful programming information were still always infested with the odd (or 2-3) bad programming habit and that. What such a thing would need is a way to keep, excuse me, noobs from editing the pages. We don't really have enough knowledgeable people to constantly review and maintain every edits to a page and revert them if they're either vandalized or contain incorrect and misleading information, or bad code with usr abuse and the like, etc.
This potential idea could work, but if you look at the Bwicki it isn't as promising as initially. >_> But hey, if you want, you can always run a wiki (or even a Bwicki if you get a server that supports DMCGI) on your own site, it doesn't have to be done by BYOND. | |
One of the big problems with the Bwicki was the fact that only administrators and creators of a page could revert that page. I personally watched over it often, and I tried to get in contact with people to revert it, though no one was ever online. I eventually gave up on that and just used Google to find a cached version of the page to revert it to.
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We've actually tried two different wiki systems, both of them failed -- the first one was the Bwicki and the second was the DM Wiki (http://dmwiki.tibbius.com). Neither ever gained any real purpose and eventually just died off.
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Why has BYOND failed where so many before have prospered?
A list of limitless developer information would be useful even for a guy like me. | |
Naokohiro wrote:
Why has BYOND failed where so many before have prospered? Maybe the 12-year-old-narutards community isn't suitable for free-editable-by-everyone things. Also, see my previous post I suppose. A list of limitless developer information would be useful even for a guy like me. Well, the DM Wiki is still up, you're free to go and start adding information for other guys like you. :P | |
I think the wiki idea can work on BYOND, but our experience has shown that to get it to work well, it'll need some substantial modifications.
I think traditional wikis have two core problems that need to be addressed in a BYOND environment: Access and organization. Access is that everyone can make edits, whereas we've discovered that only a small fraction of BYOND programmers who think they're qualified to write code for beginners, actually are. Quite a lot of people really think they're intermediate or advanced BYOND programmers who in reality are perpetual newbies. To be a useful resource, we basically have to account for a very high bozo factor in some way that doesn't require a handful of people to keep an eye on every edit. Edits to (or new) programming articles in particular would need to be vetted by someone who knows what the heck they're doing. The organization problem is that most decent project wikis I've seen are well-organized, with indexes pointing to articles of interest. We'd basically need to be able to assign articles to hierarchical categories in order to get much use out of the system. I don't know if this organization is readily available in existing wiki packages or has to be done manually. With those issues addressed, I think it's entirely possible we could get a decent BYOND wiki. Lummox JR | |
I wasn't aware of either of those resources. That tibbius site is rather slow for me, though. Maybe they don't get much activity because no one has a clue they exist?
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Kaioken wrote:
Maybe the 12-year-old-narutards community isn't suitable for free-editable-by-everyone things. Narutards i like that :D nice one, its true put something like a editable wiki up and watch it fail again but this time Narutards will be trying to make a homepage for their rip on the wiki. | |
Yeah. BTW, actually, the main problem are narutards that think they're good programmers/developers when they're... not really (it's a problem of low standards and false recognition by equally-clueless players), and therefore edit and create new pages (other than vandals, someone who doesn't think he's a good programmer won't logically touch those articles) in an intention to improve it, but end up doing the opposite. As in, exactly what Lummox JR said, but I was too lazy to go into detail like him I guess. >_>'
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I'd definetely read it alot, lol
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Probably the best way to handle this would be to use BYOND'S keys. There may be extensions that allow you to alter where a database loads is user list from, so I might go around looking for that on MediaWiki.org (I actually have two wikis myself, though I don't know PHP, so I'm rather unfamiliar with the software). Of course, the obvious downside to this is that where and how the keys are stored is only known by the Staff, meaning it would have to be worked on by the Staff.
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