This, basically. People grew to hate BYOND games because almost all of them were clones of each other quite literally.
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Dragonn wrote:
I'm the original owner of DBRP, and I'm the one who gave SSX the source to continue DBRP. He is the REAL DBRP. Any other is an unauthorized rip. Not to drag this topic off topic, but I feel I must comment on this, and request some clarification on the part of Byond, as it ties into the issue of marking something as a rip, at least tangentially. The rights to the Finale code itself were sold to the owner of Phoenix (Bishamon.), allowing Bisha to make an authorized spin-off. Is it allowed for the original owner, in this case (Who made a rather tidy profit, from what I understand.) to actually say "Ok, now it's a rip" long after the initial transaction occurred? I don't mean this in the case of him saying it, but rather acting on this claim. Of late we've had some trouble in that he copied our hub (He made a hub called Dragonball Phoenix 2 which has since disappeared from search.) in an attempt to drag players off of the game, and was literally on our servers not two weeks ago spamming them with byond addresses to his game. What i'm trying to say is. I've sunk alot of work into the Phoenix project, as have many others. Over the past year the Phoenix development team has cleaned the Finale era code up, updated the game so that Phoenix is largely a game to itself now, rather then a patched version of Finale, and made the game enjoyable for a large number of folks. We're also working on a great many features that are meant to try to further set the game apart from it's competition in unique and interesting ways, as I personally want to try and move away from the image of Phoenix being "Finale 2.0". It was understood that we were allowed to continue our own legal version of Phoenix separate from Finale in agreeance with the terms of the deal that Bishamon and Tenshaku set up together. Which is personally speaking, why I devoted so much of my time to the project. Going off of that post, Tens seems to have soured on the idea of us being a legitimate spin-off since we've managed to achieve some measure of success. What i'm asking here essentially boils down to, do I have to worry about Phoenix being "de-listed" sometime down the road because the guy is potentially going back on his word? I'm unfamiliar as to whether or not the terms of what constitutes a rip changed between the site refit. Hence my concern over the issue of marking something as a rip. I ask because I can't imagine this sort of issue has come up that often. And I haven't seen any real clarification on what the protocol for authorized spin-offs is when there's a financial element involved in terms of access and rights to the code. | |
You bought a rip, let alone an anime game which would be illegal, and are complaining about potential consequences?
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We bought the rights to use the source code and make a spin-off game. Not the rights to Finale the hub.
There's an important distinction there. Last I checked, the modern Finale code is rather original, issues with paid content aside. The Phoenix code much more-so given the development that's been put into it, and the removal of illegal features from Finale that go against the ToS and copyright law. And given that I was given what was essentially a "package" of every source code from every era of Finale , I feel I can make those claims with some confidence, as i've been able to look at the code as it was developed over almost a decade, first-hand. Also, I personally did not buy anything. I'm the head of the coding team for Phoenix. I chanced across this topic and thought i'd give it a read, as I recognized SSX's name, and some of his work, and was ultimately rather surprised when I saw Tenshaku's post up above. Hence the question I posted. | |
It's a fan-game, buying it would automatically be illegal, because Dragonn/whatever isn't allowed to sell material that isn't his, as he doesn't own DBZ.
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Moonlight Memento wrote:
He doesn't own DBZ however, and has no right to sell something that's DBZ, so yeah. I would point out again that he sold the source code to be used in any way we wish, not the rights to DBZ. Tenshaku only helped push Bishamon (Who at the time, I had not met, and was thus not a part of the team.) toward's a spin-off by creating a hub for Bishamon that was DBZ/Finale inspired. That hub was later titled as Phoenix, which we then moved off of and established our own, later on (Also titled Phoenix.), as we weren't wanting to mooch off of Tens. Had I been around, I most likely would have urged Bishamon to have taken the source code and made an original project with it. However by the time I was on board it was a bit late for that. I certainly wouldn't say that Tenshaku didn't want us to create a spin-off, however. The guy actually set up a hub for us to use that basically said "Hey! We're a legitimate spin-off!". That's not getting into the feature-sets of the two projects. Ours is vastly divergent in our pre-existing focus of development, and, what's planned/upcoming in this next arc of development is also vastly divergent from traditional fan-games, and has more in common with games like Dwarf Fortress's world building efforts (As this next arc of development focuses on developing the setting.) then anything else. I won't clutter this topic up any more then I have too by posting ideas/features in development/planning here, however. I already feel as if i've lead things off track in an effort to explain things/get an answer to my question. | |
Archonex is right, Phoenix is not unauthorized. It is the official continuation of Finale, Zee is not. Ignore anything I previously said about it being unauthorized.
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Lulz were had. That's the best post I've ever seen, you responded with a very fallacious post.
"Make me stop doing said action, but I'll never admit that I'm doing said action". | |
The point being, it's a DBZ game he sold, ignoring that he sold "source code" which is just a minor part of what he sold.
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if he was the original creator he can sell it regardless of the theme its based upon, however, if the game was released to the public by the owner then someone came along as started selling the project then that is illegal.
You cant sell something that isnt you're own creation, once published as open source it is free to use, meaning u can do what you please with all its contents. you sell the project as a whole not the name, its not possible to sell the name dueto copyright laws so basicly he sold the game itself, its art and code thats all, it just contained the name it had already unless the person who got it changes it. there is no selling of the franchise what so ever. | |
This is rediculous. I'm doubting each and every one of you that try to explain who actually owns what. Most Dragonball Z games on Byond are rips, and if they aren't, they are of poor quality.
Obviously, Dragonn was involved in some kind of law-breaking with purchasing or selling the game, but he'll never admit it. | |
We will have to come up with some official criteria, but IMO the logical thing would be to accept such things as fan-games. Should the original IP holder complain to us, we would of course have to pull such games.
I consider "rips" more of copies of outside BYOND source. Even with the original author's permission, it's an issue, although in that case I think it'd make sense to list the game as "related' to the original". The reason this is a problem is that we end up with dozens of copies of the same game dominating the listings.