I'd like it if moderators can inform authors why they deleted their post. It isn't the first time my (or someone elses') post is deleted, and I'm quite upset because I found nothing wrong with it.
A mere sentence or two would reduce the amount of complaints and help the author behave better in the future. As far as I know, this wouldn't be much work on the moderators' part too, because they already do something similar when logging their actions.
So... please?
ID:260570
 Jun 8 2008, 12:00 am
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Jun 8 2008, 12:12 am (Edited on Jun 8 2008, 6:35 am)
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Kaioken
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True. For all I know my post may have got deleted because of a database error. Not only they don't always let you know why they deleted your post but sometimes they don't let you know they've done anything at all, which is very, very helpful indeed.
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DivineO'peanut wrote:
I'd like it if moderators can inform authors why they deleted their post. It isn't the first time my (or someone elses') post is deleted, and I'm quite upset because I found nothing wrong with it. While I wouldn't mind having a readily built-in warning system such that as soon as I delete the post I could tell the author why, I'm not convinced it's necessary. (Also there's a minor complication that our current warning system is designed to show just one at a time.) Threads or subthreads get deleted mostly when the poster did something very obviously wrong. Usually, the person doesn't need to be told why because they already know. I looked at our recent history just to see if there's something specific you were concerned with, but the only thing I could find was a post you made that was fairly flamish and added nothing positive to the discussion. This falls into the very broad "You should know better" category of deleted posts, so for a post like that I would typically not send a warning unless the poster had a history of doing that kind of thing and just wasn't getting the idea that it's not okay. For an experienced forum user like yourself who is aware of this, where the post seems like it's just a one-off burst of frustration, there's really no need to belabor the issue with a formal warning. With the roles reversed, I'd feel better about having the post go away than being given a warning telling me why. Also I should point out, if the user wants to review their post to see if they can make sense of the reason they're given, they need to have some way of reading such posts. Right now they don't. A mere sentence or two would reduce the amount of complaints and help the author behave better in the future. As far as I know, this wouldn't be much work on the moderators' part too, because they already do something similar when logging their actions. If this was done at the same point as logging actions, it'd potentially work well. But speaking from my experience, I tend to think nothing much will come of this. People who complain about their threads being deleted now will just switch to complaining about why. Often this happens anyway, because the poster knew they were skirting a line with their post and is annoyed to see they got called on it. All that said, I don't think this is a bad idea as such, as long as it can be done in a way that minimizes extra moderator action. This would probably be easier on moderators if the reason supplied for deleting a post wasn't a full sentence but just a noun like "Language" or "Flaming", phrased something like a penalty call. However, it does involve some design choices and our energies in that regard are really better spent not on trying to get people to notice the usually-obvious reasons for moderator action, but on trying to improve the site experience as a whole. Lummox JR | |
Kaioken wrote:
True. For all I know my post may have got deleted because of a database error. If your post was a lot of back-and-forth bickering with another user, it's likely not a spontaneous database error that made moderators' lives easier, especially considering that I don't believe any post has been deleted by a database error since, well, as far back as our forum database goes. Not only they don't always let you know why they deleted your post "You suck! Stop programming!" "Oh no! My post that was unrelated to the topic and was only flamebait, or a flame itself, was deleted. I wonder why?" Rule of thumb, it gets deleted for one of three reasons (not official, and not all-inclusive, but these hold 99% of the time): 1) Didn't follow the rules (particularly in Classified Ads). 2) Flaming in some fashion. 3) Treating the forums like a chatroom. Threads are not chatrooms, so discussion that provides nothing positive to the thread at hand should really be taken off the forums. This is essentially spam (and rule #3 covers spam, too). If you don't want your post deleted, stay on-topic and ask yourself the following before posting: "Have I contributed anything positive to this thread?" Looking at some recent deleted posts of yours, I can safely say no, they don't contribute anything positive. | |
All that isn't important. I wasn't actually thinking of recent posts of mine when posting my previous post*. Regardless, there is often no indication of a deleted post; this just causes confusion like possibly causing the poster to re-post because he thinks he wanted to say thing X in the post, but forgot to post or got distracted, etc, and so apparently didn't post it, since it isn't there and there is no indication that it ever was.
*: Also, I'd appreciate it if you don't exaggerate and make up crap I've supposedly said. Thanks. It doesn't exactly have to do with this topic, either. | |
While I wouldn't mind having a readily built-in warning system such that as soon as I delete the post I could tell the author why, I'm not convinced it's necessary. (Also there's a minor complication that our current warning system is designed to show just one at a time.) Threads or subthreads get deleted mostly when the poster did something very obviously wrong. Usually, the person doesn't need to be told why because they already know. That's a good point. I figured notices would only be issued for some of the more subtle posts, which are usually the subject of confusion. As to why I think this is necessary, well, you probably saw the amount of frustration caused due to the moderators' generally "quiet" behaviour. I think a more open policy would only do good. The additional minute that is spent on notifying someone about a deleted post is preferable to the hour that is spent dealing with complaints. If this was done at the same point as logging actions, it'd potentially work well. But speaking from my experience, I tend to think nothing much will come of this. People who complain about their threads being deleted now will just switch to complaining about why. Often this happens anyway, because the poster knew they were skirting a line with their post and is annoyed to see they got called on it. I believe most of the people here are mature enough to accept the staff's judgement (when it is actually worded). Those that don't are probabaly newbies, that would eventually learn to, or trolls, that can be dealt with. All that said, I don't think this is a bad idea as such, as long as it can be done in a way that minimizes extra moderator action. This would probably be easier on moderators if the reason supplied for deleting a post wasn't a full sentence but just a noun like "Language" or "Flaming", phrased something like a penalty call. However, it does involve some design choices and our energies in that regard are really better spent not on trying to get people to notice the usually-obvious reasons for moderator action, but on trying to improve the site experience as a whole. I understand that you consider your efforts better spent elsewhere, but I think you shouldn't overlook this. The forums are a major part of the site, and this issue is a large part of them (as evidenced by the weekly complaint/discussion about this). | |
Kaioken wrote:
like possibly causing the poster to re-post because he thinks he wanted to say thing X in the post, but forgot to post or got distracted, etc, and so apparently didn't post it, since it isn't there and there is no indication that it ever was. This I will agree with. There have been a few times I've intended to post, and actually wrote the whole post out but then got distracted right before hitting the Post button and forgot about it. I later go back to check on responses to the post, and lo and behold the post is not there. Did it get deleted, or did I even post it at all? Having some way to know for sure which is the case would be nice xD | |
Lummox JR wrote:
While I wouldn't mind having a readily built-in warning system such that as soon as I delete the post I could tell the author why, I'm not convinced it's necessary. [link] [link] [link] [link] [link] -- Data | |
Several of those are complaints about the rules, not cases where the poster doesn't have a clue. A couple of them are the latter, but I still don't see the point of designing an interface around people who aren't reading the basics. If we had sticky posts they'd still ignore those; just about every forum has either that or posted guidelines, which in our case they see when they go to make the post.
But again, if there's an easy way to give people an indication without requiring mods to write out full warning messages, it sounds okay to me. If we could just put "forum guidelines" or something down where they'd see it, that might help. I just don't see it as a priority. Lummox JR | |
Lummox JR wrote:
If we could just put "forum guidelines" or something down where they'd see it, that might help. A short description is fine enough (although being more specific than "forum guidelines" is needed). Something else you could do is change the Delete button's functionality to an Edit's one: ie, instead of the post disappearing with no traces, only the contents are deleted, like done in some other forums. The post would also be automatically edited to have something like a red "Post was deleted by moderator" in the subject line and a "Reason: X Y Z" in the message body. You could even have a dropdown box with common reasons for the moderators to optionally choose from to save typing. | |
That would still clutter up the Classified Ads listing. Perhaps make deleted posts only visible to the author of those, and allow moderators to edit the post to state a reason?
-- Data | |
You're right, I only took into account individual posts that were deleted. For whole topics that are deleted, you'd to alter the behavior, possibly to what you've said.
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I like that idea. However, there's an implementation issue; if someone's post is deleted because a post higher up on the thread chain is deleted, would it display the other people's posts too? If not, how would it include the deleted post on the thread so the person can review it, without breaking the original thread structure (moderators need to be able to see the original structure)?
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