ID:259548
 Aug 24 2002, 8:35 am
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It would be nice for byond to support .mp3 files/
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DBZ Kidd wrote:
It would be nice for byond to support .mp3 files/ Read this thread: [link] Alathon\\ | |
This has been discussed before, especially about licensing issue related to using the mp3 encoder/decoder technology. I've suggested using vorbis-ogg, since it is open-source, but the debate and consideration for inclusion of any other music support is still being done. While there is an issue of lag from slower connections, properly compressed audio should transfer just fine.
Ideally, you would transfer all the needed files *before* the game starts - not during play. Some day we may have it, but don't hold your breath... | |
digitalmouse wrote:
This has been discussed before, especially about licensing issue related to using the mp3 encoder/decoder technology. I've suggested using vorbis-ogg, since it is open-source, but the debate and consideration for inclusion of any other music support is still being done. While there is an issue of lag from slower connections, properly compressed audio should transfer just fine. I don't see vorbis-ogg being the solution: It's too far out of the mainstream. MOD and its related formats have a pretty good following, so they'd be a good choice, as would MP3 for the same reason. Lummox JR | |
Lummox JR wrote:
I don't see vorbis-ogg being the solution: It's too far out of the mainstream.[snip] This is the second time you've mentioned this. I'm curious. At what point does does Ogg Vorbis become mainstream and what does that term have to do with game development? Sure, I don't see people carrying around hardware OGG players, but who the heck needs them to create content? "I can't directly use my collection of mp3s created by others artists in my game." Isn't that a good thing? | |
ACWraith wrote:
Lummox JR wrote: What about those who create MP3s of our own songs? I'm betting there are quite a few of us. I've never heard of Ogg Vorbis, however. And I prefer not to have to worry about yet another format, and yet more software to create something in it. | |
Skysaw wrote:
What about those who create MP3s of our own songs? I'm betting there are quite a few of us. I've never heard of Ogg Vorbis, however. And I prefer not to have to worry about yet another format, and yet more software to create something in it. This is the problem I'm getting at. I largely hadn't heard of it either except in passing the first time digitalmouse mentioned it. The format may be popular in penguin-thumper circles, but if Joe Newbie doesn't know it, what's the point? What we do know is that the average newbie is likely to want one of four well-established formats:
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Lummox JR wrote:
Skysaw wrote:
I'm with you for the most part here, except I would favor Mp3 over MOD just because I already have those tools :-P Plus, I tend to use mostly straight audio these days. It's all about me, after all. | |
I'm really pulling for MOD/XM/IT myself, for both of the reasons you mentioned. It sounds better than midi and beats MP3s by size. Nothing comes close.
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Joe Newbie is too new to have a preference. I think the average newbie has merely heard of MP3 and collected MP3s. The average newbie has probably not created music yet. Give Joe Newbie links to the tools and let Joe Newbie learn. Joe Newbie has to learn some sort of tool anyway. Let Joe Newbie use a free format without patents. Let Dantom avoid lawyers.
If Joe Oldbie can't get a plugin, Joe Oldbie chose poor software. It's not as if it requires a whole new suite. Get something to convert the original files. (There's probably not much sense in converting a file from one lossy format to another. Of course, most people might not notice the difference.) I'm open to the MOD family though. | |
ACWraith wrote:
Joe Newbie is too new to have a preference. I think the average newbie has merely heard of MP3 and collected MP3s. The average newbie has probably not created music yet. Give Joe Newbie links to the tools and let Joe Newbie learn. Joe Newbie has to learn some sort of tool anyway. Let Joe Newbie use a free format without patents. Let Dantom avoid lawyers. The MOD family makes so much more sense. All Ogg seems to have going for it is that it's open source. Gee, that's... swell, and all, but it's not like it's all that well known. And if it's not that popular, it's not gonna have the array of tools needed to work well with it. What open source proponents too often fail to realize is that open source is a code word for "mostly on Linux". Very popular with penguin-thumpers, but not with everyone else. When this happens to a format, often the format ends up with most of its development programs written for Linux. Ultimately you end up stuck with a format that enjoys strong support at the south pole, and next to zero anywhere else. MOD, on the other hand, has been around for many years now, as have its counterparts. There are tools out there to work with it--not all of them good, but good enough. There are also a lot of public domain songs out there that would be useful for games. Lummox JR | |
MOD is cool. MOD is good. As I said, I have no problem with MOD that I know of.
I prefer Ogg over MP3. It's not about Ogg being open source. I have no intention of editing the source. It's about Ogg not having the Fraunhofer patent problems of MP3. Also, Ogg Vorbis is just an export option. It's pretty much like creating an MP3. You use the same genre of tools. You just export or save as a different type. It's not like the shift between MIDI tools and audio tools. You edit it like any mp3. As for Windows tools, I have heard good things about Audacity as a sound editor for multiple formats, but I have not tried it yet. Also, I tend to use WinAmp to play different formats. Some Windows Ogg tools can be found here: http://www.vorbis.com/software.psp?pid=2, but I'll mention right now that not all of their links work. | |
Ogg is not just Penguin territory - aside from WinAmp having a plugin for it, there are a variety of players and tools for Windoze, Macs, *and* Linux users. While I like mp3, ogg has an advantage of not having the licensing/patent problems mentioned here and elsewhere. Dan and Tom can use it without fear of reprisal, and without hurting their pocketbook. The format sounds as good as the mp3 format (in my opinion), and has comparable compression (some say better than mp3 in some cases).
Seems like a win-win situation to me... certainly would not hurt DanTom to support it. | |
OGG is not another file format for songs like MID or MODs... they are a container for pure audio files, like WAV or MP3.
The reason why many people support OGG over MP3 (like myself), is that OGG has no license costs, unlike MP3. If DanTom would implement MP3 support, they would have legal difficulties with the Frauenhofer Institute, who developed it. Not so with OGG. There are dozens of programs out there which can easily convert MP3 (or WAV) to OGG. That way we have both: a compressed wave file format, and no legal problems. It might take a few extra moments to download a converter and convert it, but that is a small price to pay in my eyes. So unless DanTom manages to find a way to implement MP3 without problems, I'd prefer OGG to no compressed audio format at all. This has nothing to do with operating systems or open source or anything in my eyes... just common legal sense. Feel free to flame me! ;-) splatty | |
I was thinking of this earlier, but decided to be quiet because I didn't want to spend hours downloading a game via my 28.8k connection because someone decided to use an entire soundtrack of some game/movie/etc. for background music.
Personnally...I wish MOD/XM/S3M/IT/etc. formats (or a subset of those) were implemented. | |
Well, as long as the .oggs (or .mp3s) were optional, and the game could play in either a basic or a deluxe version, I don't think that this is much of a problem... but if there is no choice, and I have to wait an hour before playing, I'd also be wary of the whole thing.
splatty | |
Ditto. I'd rather see tracker support in place before I see Ogg Vorbis support.
Unfortunately, the number of public domain MOD libraries is extremely slim. | |
That's the way most games that can only be gotten via download do it. Besides, I'd rather not end up playing a game with a crappy soundtrack (or none at all) instead of a good one because the author was concerned that people with 28.8 modems wouldn't want to download it. I've seen some kinda-good games that were vastly improved by a good soundtrack, and it would be a shame to miss that improvement because the author wanted to keep the download to a reasonable size.
I still think all these issues would be less of issues if most game downloads were downloaded from web servers and not from the hosts. Like normal games. You download it, then you play it. Not the other way around. | |
It'd be better for BYOND to support *.xm, *.mod, and *.it digital music files. They are basically enhanced midis which are about the same filesize.