Also.. I get it. I completely understand how an EXE is supposed to work.
That's why I felt robbed, because what he sold was NOT a true exe on any front.
What's more, if he has the capability to write a program in C++, why didn't he just use that capability to simplify the process of setting up all of the options to begin with?
Ya. Of course I'm not versed in lower computer languages. Most people aren't these days so your tactic of saying "oh, you're just ignorant" kinda falls flat.
Most people wouldn't be able to use it even if they DID get their hands on it. That was my original point sir.
The only special build is for Steam integration, and all that does is add the Steam API dll to the package.
BYOND doesn't have any official "mobile capability" outside of the webclient, and that's more "if it works it works" and not officially supporting it. The simple fact here is, you're full of crap and have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. If you have indeed used BYONDexe, you didn't use it very well. It sounds more like you're basing your entire idea on second (or third) hand information. BYONDexe works exactly how I said it works, and it always has. I've used it since the beginning across multiple projects -- and if you do indeed have access to it, you'd have a link to the current version easily accessible to you from the entries with access. | |
I don't see how you feel it's not a true exe, it works the same as any other exe. It absolutely does not require installing BYOND in any way, or even tying to the BYOND hub.
There's no part of it that requires the user to even know BYOND is a thing. You can utilize it the same as an exe generated by any other engine. | |
As for the documentation, we've had lots of people use the thing, and yes, the documentation isn't great, but said people generally only need a few back and forth conversations with people who do know what they're doing (Ter and I are always happy to help people who are willing to be helped) and they're on their way.
It's not used widespread so we haven't worried too much about documenting it for the masses, the documentation is focused on developers, not end-users. | |
Also something of note, I actually do / can put together my own .Exe file without any of the bells and whistles. The "ByondEXE" is what actually inspired me to learn to do so.
It doesn't have/need any of that other stuff attached to it, and the process is WAY simpler. Which pretty much supports my claim that it was made to be needlessly complex on purpose. What's more all it really took was for me to take the proper .dll files and DM files and package it. It was literally a 2-3 step process. Zip >> Play game without downloading Byond Suite. When that "Exe" first came out, that was pretty much everyone's first complaint. That it wasn't a true exe solution. If that's been changed since then, great. So when I say I get it, I get it... it's not just me "making up lies cause Avid is crazy" as you people like to make it seem. I did it for Spirit Saga AND Kage last year. Also.. that save byond thing. You all should get on that. You're welcome. | |
You've never actually said why it's not a true exe, and I'll say it once more, the process hasn't changed any since the beginning of BYONDexe, it has never installed BYOND. Not once, NEStalgia has been using it since it first existed, and quite a lot of the people who played that never used BYOND outside of account stuff.
It's as true of an EXE as anything else, I'm not really sure why you feel otherwise. Sounds to me like you're basing your opinion on an older feature than BYONDexe, and don't know the difference. If you used it "last year" then you've used a version that's newer than what NEStalgia is using now, and you can literally see that it never installs BYOND. You get NEStalgia.exe and some BYOND dll files, nothing more. Also, you should note that you can't legally redistribute "only the dll" files for BYOND outside of BYONDexe usage, the EULA states that you can only redistribute the package in its entirety. There's never been any complaint except for you as far as I'm aware that BYONDexe wasn't a "true exe", the only complaints I know of are figuring out how to use it. Once more, I'll say it since you seem to ignore it each time I do, BYONDexe does not now, nor has it ever installed the BYOND suite. The whole point of it was to use BYOND games WITHOUT installing BYOND. | |
I ignore it because I never said it did install the Byond Suite.
I'm not really sure where you got that from. LoL | |
What I said was, I set it up, ported it to another computer and it didn't work.
I then installed the BYOND suite myself, and magically--it worked fine. (Imagine that.) | |
You've said you didn't like it because it required installing BYOND. It doesn't. If it didn't work when you moved the files to another computer it's likely because of another issue.
The system doesn't require BYOND to be installed, or to have ever been installed to work. It does require things like DX9 and the sort be installed (which the NSIS installer can do for you, which is why it's good to use it). It's likely you didn't have the right DX updates installed, which can be solved by opening the "directx" folder that BYONDexe creates for you and running the setup. The NSIS installer handles this step, and the BYOND installer also does the same thing. | |
What the hell do you mean BYONDexe isn't a true exe? Also, there is no such thing as a BYONDexe with mobile support. That's not even possible, because the whole fucking suite uses DirectX for rendering, and mobile platforms can't run fucking windows executable files. What are you even talking about?
It is in fact an executable. It just doesn't package your DMB and RSC into the executable. It side-loads that and runs them from the executable. That's in no way not a "true" exe. As for the Fallacy thing --Fallacy has historically been someone you should not ever listen to on nearly any subject. He's right enough enough of the time to make people who know less than him think that he's worth listening to, and wrong often enough owing to a number of deep-seated personality flaws and lack of ability to introspect that he's a really dangerous person to listen to if you don't have those abilities either. Fallacy is someone I always caution people to take a grain of salt with. He's a worthwhile resource some of the time, but when you start digging into his code, it really shows he doesn't care to understand how things work at a deep level, and that makes him real bad at designing software sometimes. | |
"Same as it ever was!"
| |
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ygqf8g8oocfmywy/ Spires_Installer.exe?dl=0
There's a reason good developers use installers instead of just zipping up a folder and distributing that, it allows for dependencies to be automatically handled. You would have run into the same issue trying to copy/paste most other games that rely on things like redist packages. | |
I know what I said. And meant.
It's likely also that my original assessment was at least partially correct. It needs to be user-friendly -- especially if it's being sold to people for 100$ a pop. Blaming the buyer for not being able to set up a technical product that was built with a language (2-3 no less) other than DM isn't really how good business is done. *That was my original point to begin with while I was being assaulted with paragraphs about my ignorance on the matter.* Like I said, if the product has been updated since then--GREAT. But no one would know, because you essentially have to go fishing for it at this point or be in the know. Which is weird considering *some* people have paid for it. Others can ask for it and it will magically fall from the sky with updates in tow. Who knew XD. Refund? Didn't think so. *shrug* | |
Nadrew wrote:
It's not used widespread so we haven't worried too much about documenting it for the masses, the documentation is focused on developers, not end-users. in the past I would have been very interested in using it if information on it was more clear and open. tbh, I didn't even know it was acquirable for a charge or what I had to do to get it. It could mean more money for BYOND development and happier devs, so why not go for it and publish some details on how to get your paws on it? | |
I'd be willing to put together a guide on how to use the thing, considering me and Nadrew seem to have the most experience with how it works at a deep level.
I wouldn't be comfortable doing that without clearer information from Lummox on his requirements for people to use it, though, and his thoughts on who it's meant for and the justification behind all the terms. @Avid, you still haven't answered the question of how BYONDexe isn't a true exe. You also still haven't explained what you mean by a mobile-capable BYONDexe that is secretly being distributed. I'd like to know where you heard this, how you think that would work, and why you feel the need to spread this misinformation. You didn't pay $100 for a working launcher. You paid for BYONDexe and the ability to remove ads from your product. You can literally develop your own launcher if you want to in DM by telling your launcher to launch the launcher DMB, and then using the .url command to redirect the client to your game. You don't even need to learn JS, CSS, or HTML. You only have to change a single line in a single configuration file to do this. This is plaintext, and it's thoroughly documented in the information packaged with BYONDexe. | |
At the time I purchased it, the idea was to tie the use of it into a per hub basis.
You would pay for it and get a code that you needed to plugin to the BYONDExe to get it to work. Next you'll tell me that didn't exist? I can login to my other account and screen shot it just to prove it if I must. | |
So that essentially means back then, they were charging 100$ , per game, that wanted to use the "EXE".
For an "EXE", which I just got done explaining can be put together in 2-3 steps. Granted, there is apparently a ton of functionality attached to it, that you have to be proficient in 2-3 other programming languages to use properly due to documentation issues. So...am I crazy about that too? Am I just making that up too or? | |
Ter13 wrote:
I'd be willing to put together a guide on how to use the thing, considering me and Nadrew seem to have the most experience with how it works at a deep level. please make it happen man. A bunch of developers would be interested in it I'm sure. Even if there's a fee attached to it. Having clear knowledge about it would certainly be beneficial. | |
Avidanimefan wrote:
At the time I purchased it, the idea was to tie the use of it into a per hub basis. That part definitely exists, but it doesn't mean you have to tie actually require the hub to do anything beyond handle the key for you. That only handles the actual generation of the files, and after that the hub/key stuff isn't used unless you want to use the hub for server listing (again, don't have to). That part only exists to add a layer of validation to the process so Lummox has a way to grant access. Lummox is effectively cutting off a stream of revenue by giving someone the ability to use BYONDexe, so it's done with an agreement to offset that fact. It's not really us calling you out about being ignorant, it's that you went about it by spouting a lot of non-facts as facts instead of saying "I don't have a lot of experience with it" you said "I know everything about it and it absolutely does this". Like I said above and you seem to be failing to get it, is that it HASN'T been updated since then, it has always worked that way. You simply didn't have luck using it that way when you tried and instead of getting help you assumed it only worked one specific way and moved on. It does quite a lot more than you seem to think it does, and it always has. | |
You know, unless the 3-4 people I heard it from were lying. Then I guess it's not. XD