If he made the correct changes he could hire all of you full time, get the site booming and hire people to help him make BYOND great again.
this part legit made me chuckle.
Avidanimefan wrote:
this part legit made me chuckle. | |
I'm the presumptuous one? You're the one calling your ideas the "correct changes".
You believe you know better and state it as facts and not ideas. It really comes down to you not actually knowing anything at all, you've proven that multiple times over the course of this thread by simply ignoring actual facts given to you. Maybe Lummox should give you a refund, if the keys you got aren't actually being used, nobody would be upset when those exes stopped working. -- and don't give the "I can make my own exe" thing, it would unlikely be as feature rich as the one we have (since you only seem to know about a fraction of what it can actually do), and likely be in violation of the license to use the software at all. Good luck though, must be nice to live outside of reality (because reality is pretty terrible) | |
Avid, nobody really disagrees that y'all should be allowed to make what you want and turn a profit. It's just that Lummox can't ignore C&Ds and DMCA strikes. He has to take stuff down when he's asked, and the law states that the presumption in a DMCA/C&D should be granted to the filer, not the person being served.
It's also that Lummox isn't stopping *you* from making money. You are wrong about this one. You said yourself that you are able to generate your own EXEs for your games and distribute them. Why are none of those making you a windfall? I think it's pretty realistic to say that yes, the ad model isn't the best, but it's the easiest solution to what we have at the moment, and we've got a lack of developers that are making anything serious because the tools really aren't as good as the other tools that are out there. Nobody but the copyright holders are stopping fangames from existing. BYOND just is trying to not be complicit. If the games weren't advertised on BYOND, Lummox would have zero ability to know that they existed. Advertise your games off site. Make a fuckton of money, then say we're wrong about what we're doing. The issue comes down to the fact that Lummox is obligated to remove infringing content from the site when he's asked to by an owner. That's always been the problem. There's no bias, just compliance with the law as Lummox is obligated. What don't you get about this? None of us actually give a shit about fangames. We just understand reality. Talking to you has always been pigeon chess tho. Don't expect any introspection, just more shitting on the board and not actually responding to what anyone said, just what you think they said. | |
Not all. These aren't "my ideas". They are working business models, you can dispute me(in fact it is the default mode of all of you). You can't dispute real world, working models that actually manage to live BYOND ramen meals.
That supersedes these being ideas. Facts, you know? The things you can back up and quantify. That is what these are. More facts for you, the things you people have been doing up until now are not effective. Meager living from ads, averaging 1k a month from monthly donations. That's what... less than 30k a year? That's below the poverty level by today's standards. Is that up for debate or is that just my ideas at play? | |
Let's speak numbers then.
100 Games running. Each averages 200$ a week in sales. BYOND sees 5% of that. That amounts to 1,000$ a week. That amounts to 4k a month. That amounts to 48k a year. Financial costs of setting all this up? 0. It could be done within a month's time. And that's a conservative estimate. If you did exactly what I suggested you would be:
But if you doubt the opinion of one person, I'd be happy to start up a petition to see how many signatures I can get. | |
More facts for you, the things you people have been doing up until now are not effective. Meager living from ads, averaging 1k a month from monthly donations. That's what... less than 30k a year? That's below the poverty level by today's standards. Agreed. It's not working. So let's cut the shit and lay out your proposal without insults, and without shots at the community, as a clear plan of action of what you feel Lummox should do today. I've read your ideas, in the past, but they are generally laid out in such a way as to make them... Well, stupid. Lay it out, daddy. All in one clear proposal without any tangents about how we're all colluding to kill the software. Let's go. Chop chop. | |
You're ignoring what I said and attempting to highlight things you dislike about me that you've formed through bias in your interactions with other members.
I don't mind, because I'm used to it, but don't attempt to take some sort of high ground with the notion that you're better, smarter or more intelligent than me. Knowledge is a sliding scale, many people can attain it, all it takes is time and effort. Perception is more valuable, if you can only see the world from one angle, you will be confined for your entire life. Your perception is lacking, thus you refuse to accept outside input, no matter how beneficial it is to you. I've listened to all your(this community) complaints about me, for years now (and mostly with a very smalllllll grain of salt). I regularly admit when I'm wrong, however I have yet to see ANY of you apologize or admit when I have a point. Or for the MANY personal attacks you launch (sometimes in groups, because your logic is flimsy most times). That suggests that, you are all in fact exactly the things you claim I am. But sure, continue putting words in my mouth. | |
Sorry avid, you posted your last bit while I was posting mine.
Where are those 100 games going to come from? We already have a revenue sharing model in the form of credits. All of this could be done without a single change to the suite or the site already. Why aren't we seeing 100 games pitching in $200 a month right now? Why aren't we even seeing 100 games being actively played by a fanbase of >10 people period? You need to put your big boy pants on. We don't like you because of how you act. You've never once apologized to me for any of the shit you've pulled, and you've gone so far as to delete entire threads to avoid looking like you were wrong, while claiming for years that you knew exactly what you were talking about the whole time, and the whole forum was misunderstanding you. Own your shit. It's just you that we treat like this, because of how you act. If you didn't act like you do, you wouldn't be treated like you do. Own your shit. Man up and stop acting like we're prejudiced against you. We can't be prejudiced against you. Unfortunately, we interact with you too much to judge you in absence of how you are as a human being. On the internet, we can ONLY know you based on how you act. How you are treated on the web basically can't be prejudice in action. So knock that shit off. It's dishonest. The reason we respond to you as a group, is because you are consistently wrong, and a whole community of people are independently correcting you in unison, not because we're colluding how to best treat you poorly. I don't even like half the people you act like are my buddies. Don't accuse the people on the site of killing the profit model. You are one of us. If we're implicated, you are too. Stop acting like you are separate from this, because last I checked you weren't making 100 games and turning a profit either. We're all just as responsible for it, if it's a problem with the community. You aren't separate from that. If it's a marketing or a messaging problem, that's on Lummox to fix. You can't blame us for not making games that turn a profit and expect that change to happen overnight. We're all here trying same as you. Quit being such a sanctimonious ass about it and we won't have to fight every time you pop up. Real talk, I don't care if BYOND isn't as profitable as it could be. I kick in my two bits every few months that I can afford to, and try to make stuff using the software, requesting new features that would help improve everyone's quality of life. I try to help people understand how things work and solve problems they run into with the software. That should be enough for one man to do. If anything is killing BYOND, it's the 7 years we didn't get any updates to the software because BYOND was busy trying to be autistic facebook. It isn't even remotely related to fangames. It isn't related to the attitude of anyone here. It's just bad business decisions while other companies that compete with us made good ones. | |
Bring back guilds and blogs you dumb motherfuckers.
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Meme01 wrote:
Bring back guilds and blogs you dumb motherfuckers. Tom and Lummox both have explained that guilds and blogs actually made the site less profitable and cost them development time on the engine, which fell behind for years because of all the effort spent on site updates that actually made less profit than what they had before. | |
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What a cesspool.
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Orange55 wrote:
Kyuukei wrote: I think you're taking what I said too literal, my dude. But that's okay. There wasn't a lot of context. Essentially I was implying the BYOND Engine is very limited compared to other engines available in this day of age. I'll always have a soft spot for BYOND and it introduced me to game making (which eventually got me my job in the game industry) but there's a lot of better alternatives. | |
BYOND is the best amateur mass multiplayer (10-200 clients) engine available, in my opinion. It's also the best choice for 2D isometric. It's simple, straight forward and effective.
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Crazah wrote:
BYOND is the best amateur mass multiplayer (10-200 clients) engine available, in my opinion. It's also the best choice for 2D isometric. It's simple, straight forward and effective. With a little (read a lot) customization, I really like it for single player games too. Even Unity2D and Unreal4 Paper2D don't really do the whole pixel game thing. They try to emulate it, but there's a lot of stuff that doesn't really work like you'd want. Because of precision issues, there's always a very slight rounding error to where stuff is rendered, which causes things to not align to the pixel grid properly pretty often. It's actually one of the reasons that I really like BYOND despite its limitations. | |
BYOND itself is a very powerful platform for rapidly creating and publishing 2D games. In the early days of online gaming it was unmatched in terms of what it could offer inexperienced developers. Over the years, however, BYOND has sort of walled itself in as an indie game industry grew around it.
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Ter13 wrote:
Crazah wrote: Yeah, Unity2D isn't the best for what you want to do. You're better off making your own engine if you want precision. Making engines from scratch is such a choir though. It's my least favorite part of the game making process but damn does it feel good when it's finished or presentable. | |
couldn't you just select an engine with good 2D support instead of jumping on the unity/unreal bandwagon?
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On the subject of streams of revenue, which this is all about--money, isn't really something I can hear you on.
The problem is, you all cut your own hands and legs off, consistently, and have for years.
First Tom, now Lummox.
You seem to think that this community will flourish by trying so desperately to control things BYOND your means. The reality is, you are hobbling yourselves.
There are plenty of working models that are wildly successful at generating funds.
BYOND could easily be one of them. Yet any time someone points that out, it's met with a wall of resistance bordering on xenophobia that 'this way' which is failing monumentally at every turn, is the right way.
Forum Account tried to help.
Fallacy tried to help.
Tons of others, no matter their position have desperately tried to help.
YOU folks are strangling this community to death. It's not "anime" games or "fan games".
It's lack of willingness to look at proper business models and make effective changes.
I just pointed out one that generates millions a year that can EASILY be implemented. Within a few months your ad revenue that he so desperately clings to will be a moot point.
There is no excuse.
Period.
You all just 'want' this place to remain in shambles. I say that because of the mentality.The system you want is failing, and you refuse to adopt one that benefits yourself and others. That means you are indirectly participating in self destruction.
If he made the correct changes he could hire all of you full time, get the site booming and hire people to help him make BYOND great again.
Instead, you just want to bang your head against a wall and wallow in pity like
"Oh well. Guess byond's just in it's twilight. Guess its dying"
etc etc.