People need to keep their mental threads straight. This kind of discussion involves many factors, and people jump to whatever factor is convenient at the moment, making it hard to have a real discussion.

First: The terrorist attacks did not start after the US invaded anything. Terrorist attacks from this group of people started long ago, involved attacking far more than the US, and escalated over a period of twenty years from small attacks to larger attacks. During a period where the US didn't invade anything, the terrorist attacks escalated until they managed to kill thousands of people at once.

So "get out of Iraq and the terrorist attacks will stop" makes little sense. If that's so, why didn't they stop in the 20 years before that? Looking at this history, you could argue that not pursuing terrorists results in worse terrorism.

The point was brought up about attacking people without evidence. Well, in this complicated discussion, what people are we talking about?

When 9/11 happened, some people said there was no evidence Bin Laden was involved. That wasn't true then (after all, he had publically and on video declared war on the US and said they would be attacking the US, and had publically taken credit for various attacks), and it's even less true now, when he have video of him talking about 9/11 and lots of other evidence.

The Taliban openly collaborated with Bin Laden, and so Afghanistan was invaded and overthrown. Are you saying there was no evidence that the Taliban was a part of this? If so, there's so much evidence I don't know where to start...but let's start with the fact that they told us he was living in their country and they weren't going to give him up.

After Afghanistan came Iraq. It's clear that claims of a connection between Iraq and Al Queda were overblown (though not non-existent) and a convenient excuse at the moment. It's also pretty clear that the Bush administration and just about everyone else on the planet believed that Iraq was full of the good old Weapons of Mass Destruction, and that this combined with the general history of Saddam was why we went after him. Well, just about everybody was wrong about the weapons. But as we discovered, we were right about Saddam himself...he was a mass murderer of men, women, and children, and his country was in a total state of collapse before we arrived.

You can agree or disagree with the actions there, and certainly in this case decisions were made based on incorrect evidence.

So when talking about terrorist attacks, evidence, invasions, etc, it's important to clarify which attacks, which evidence, which invasion you mean. Otherwise it's just people waving at each other incoherently.

and of course i'd like to stress that "all the money" is, of course, representing a total of nearly *4 BILLION DOLLARS*

friggin... 4 billion! and thats USA spending alone!

Yeah... I'm a proud Airman in the united States Air Force, and to my knowledge, the only military presence on BYOND.

I have earned my rights by risking my life... Have you stopped to think? History can show us what happens when we ignore big issues.

Look at World War II. It would not have been so bad if the U.S. and Britain had decided to stop being isolationist.

If the US caused these attacks, I say BRING IT ON! I've got 85% accuracy with an M16, 92% with an M9, and am about to take a six week extended combat training course in which I will be trained in the use of the M4 Carbine and the M60. I'll stomp anybody that wants a piece of the free world, and that's a promise.

If the US caused these attacks, I say BRING IT ON! I've got 85% accuracy with an M16, 92% with an M9, and am about to take a six week extended combat training course in which I will be trained in the use of the M4 Carbine and the M60. I'll stomp anybody that wants a piece of the free world, and that's a promise.

YOU may be a crack shot with an M16 (mega cool by the way =D), but I'm certainly not.
You're at risk from terrorists after signing up to the army with your consent, you're getting equipped, you're surrounded by guys who know what they're doing, and you're getting paid.

I'm at risk from terrorists against my will, I'm unequipped, my company is the panicky, clueless general public, and I'm not getting paid.


If the U.S./U.K. caused these attacks, they should at least give me some cash as protection. I mean, they pay you, right? I could be bombed anytime as could you, and I'm not seeing a penny of it.

Look, when Clinton was president for the first time in American history we actually didn't owe anybody anything. Now with Bush as president we're several billion dollars in the whole and the wholes just getting bigger. My personal belief in this matter, as I have stated before:
Take care of yourself before you go to try to take care of others.
We have too much poverty and crime here to try to save the world, and yet we give everything we have to other people.
That just makes us slaves to everyone elses needs, when our own needs have not been met.
I have some books I suggest you read considering they seem to deal with this matter. The Sword of Truth sries by Terry Goodkind.
In those books there is an empire that is trying to take over the world on the belief that you should give everything you have to those less fortunae than you, and then they shold give it all to someone less fortunate than them, and eventually noone has anything because everyone keeps trying to give to others.
Your lives are you own, live them to the fullest. Rise above the others and provide a beacon so they may follow.
The only way to make the world a better place is to start in our own backyard.
We need to stop those that mean us harm, but leave the rest. Once everyone here has a good life we can go and try to improve the lives of others.

James, last time I check those terrorists kind of...attack us in our own backyard... but hell what do I know?

"the only military presence on BYOND."

Dont count your chips on that.

"If the US caused these attacks, I say BRING IT ON! I've got 85% accuracy with an M16, 92% with an M9, and am about to take a six week extended combat training course in which I will be trained in the use of the M4 Carbine and the M60. I'll stomp anybody that wants a piece of the free world, and that's a promise."

Free world ? you mean australia, canada, the republic of ireland, norway and whoever won the eurovision song contest when it wasnt completely political based ?