I'll admit, I did learn that from your posts. And I'll also admit, this thread I made was a mistake on my part. However, it does prove something. You are no better. Why? You talk about how you made several blogs advertising your games. Do you really think it's going to be that quick to generate interest? See, that's what most people here, including yourself and I, don't understand nor have: Patience. If the members here had patience and not "My game hasn't seen interest in months, I'm going to cry and bitch and take my fustration out on others" then you shouldn't be a game developer in the first place. And you can sit here and say "Well, I'm not taking opinions from someone who has never made a successful game". Well, at this point, it's not about game development. It's about the self-entitled attitude most people have around here. I used to shit on Yutput a lot because I thought he was one of these people. However, he got his shit together, launched Epoch on Steam, and is continuing to better himself in the business. He has my respect because he stuck his nose out and never gave up, something I didn't see at the time.
This may be a hobby to some people, but if you WANT to make it, you need to make it a job. It's going to take a loooong ass time. It some retrospects, it reminds me of a Pro-Wrestler's journey. They go to school, get trained, then they have to get their name known to get in WWE. Might take them a year or 10 years, but as long as they keep at it and show hard work, they'll get there one way or another.
You didn't actually read my post did you?
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Goodness I think the arguments need to end :p. Arguing about age old issues in the community isn't going to help really, figuring out ways to make Byond more appealing as a 2D engine with networking capabilities is the main thing in my view.
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Drakemoore wrote:
figuring out ways to make Byond more appealing as a 2D engine with networking capabilities is the main thing in my view. Pretty simple: Let Lummox do his thing. Your part in this is making a good game. The former is difficult because everyone has an opinion on what's best (and they love to tell everyone else), and the latter is even harder because making a good game is a process that typically takes potentially thousands of hours of work along with at least a few past releases. | |
Let Lummox do his thing. Your part in this is making a good game. I request a ton of features. I kick a few bucks into the pot here and there because I feel like I ask too much of Lummox. A lot of feature requests and bug reports I post get answers. Why? Because they are well thought out, I make a solid, solid case for the use-case or feature gap that I'm arguing exists, and I explain the logic as to why this feature gap should be closed. I also think forward to other developers' uses of the features. Lummox is a saint among supervillians. He bends over backward for those of us that are trying to make stuff. Basically, anybody that is already here that's trying to make solid products with BYOND: Don't worry about whether the engine is good enough for you to use. Just make something. It doesn't have to be your magnum opus. It just has to be something. Lummox will work to help you get to where you need to be if you put the work in to help him understand your needs. | |
Drakemoore wrote:
figuring out ways to make Byond more appealing as a 2D engine with networking capabilities is the main thing in my view. We've already figured it out. In fact, we figured it out several years ago. The question at this point should not be "how can we make BYOND appealing". If you want to help BYOND, the question you should be asking yourself is "why the hell am I in a thread talking about what BYOND needs instead of making games". That was the point of the last wall of text I wrote. If you want to help BYOND, you can either make games or assist someone who is. There, I just told you. Go do it. You wanted to know how to help BYOND, I just typed it. Close the thread now. Go develop a game. You're on a game development site after all. That's kinda the point you know? We don't need an umpteenth site revamp. We don't need blogs back. We don't need to revive the BYOND Anime guild. We don't need to add more shit onto Lummox's to-do list. The way to help the site is literally written in its name: go BUILD YOUR OWN NET DREAM. Honestly these threads are always created by people who have never made anything at any point during their 5 or 10 years on this site and it's absolutely mind boggling how they always have a list of tasks for Tom ( or at this point, Lummox ) to complete and offer him business advice and yet they seem completely incapable of doing the most useful thing anyone here can do to help and that's always been to just open Dream Maker and create a game. Why does that suggestion NEVER compute with you people? Oh, right, I forgot. It's because you're not a good programmer, or you can't afford a pixel artist, or your host doesn't respond to your Skype messages, or the engine is shit, blah blah blah, whatever makes you feel better kids. | |
Honestly these threads are always created by people who have never made anything at any point during their 5 or 10 years on this site and it's absolutely mind boggling how they always have a list of tasks for Tom ( or at this point, Lummox ) to complete and offer him business advice and yet they seem completely incapable of doing the most useful thing anyone here can do to help and that's always been to just open Dream Maker and create a game. We don't need blogs back. We don't need to revive the BYOND Anime guild. We don't need to add more shit onto Lummox's to-do list. The way to help the site is literally written in its name: go BUILD YOUR OWN NET DREAM.  | |
EmpirezTeam wrote:
Why does that suggestion NEVER compute with you people? Oh, right, I forgot. It's because you're not a good programmer, or you can't afford a pixel artist, or your host doesn't respond to your Skype messages, or the engine is shit, blah blah blah, whatever makes you feel better kids. My point has been proven. EDIT: Before you go "What point?" I mean as in you're insecure with yourself. You tend to not realize this argument goes both ways. You tell people to stop complaining and make games, yet, you are turning yourself into a hypocrite by saying this. Yes, you've created games in the past. Good for you, many people have. You say you couldn't get people to play. Good for you, other people have had the same. Until you realize this problem is inside everyone, including you and me, then we can move on from "This is why BYOND is dying". Stop feeling bad for yourself. You get no pity from anyone. | |
I'll even buy you and Drakemoore memberships if you agree to make a game and never create a "BYOND needs" thread ever again. Do we have a deal or nah?
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EmpirezTeam wrote:
I'll even buy you and Drakemoore memberships if you agree to make a game and never create a "BYOND needs" thread ever again. Do we have a deal or nah? Or you can stop skipping my advice. At this point, the person that needs that membership is you. The person who needs that "motivation" is you. Only you can control yourself. You can't control others. There will always be a "BYOND needs" thread. Instead of bitching, complaining and (horribly) trolling, be the bigger person and prove them wrong and do something about it. That's what Yut did. That's what Severed Worlds and LOF are doing. That's what Silk did. As far as me making a game, I'm in the process of IRL work. I made this thread in hopes to get a discussion started (friendly, mind you) I wasn't expecting Multiverse or Drakemoore to cause issues I did not want. However, at this point, you are do as much damage as they are in this thread. Is it good advice? All bold words and sensible rage aside, yes. However, you could argue that Multiverse and Drake's advice is also good. | |
I stopped making games in BYOND years ago. Whether the site succeeds or fails makes little difference to me. Obviously I don't wish anything bad on it but the only reason I still come is because the meme threads and whatnot are mildly entertaining and I like to keep up with what's happening here out of curiosity.
But I'm not making "BYOND needs" threads. I'm not making feature requests. I'm not claiming I want to help save the site. So no, I don't have an obligation to do anything. I am not interested in being BYOND's savior nor am I interested in 2D game development anymore, nor do I care about failed entrepreneurial attempts I made when I was 15 and in high school. I'm participating in this thread because I've seen this exact same topic created time and time again and somehow I never get tired of repeating the same answers. | |
EmpirezTeam wrote:
I stopped making games in BYOND years ago. Whether the site succeeds or fails makes little difference to me. Obviously I don't wish anything bad on it but the only reason I still come is because the meme threads and whatnot are mildly entertaining and I like to keep up with what's happening here out of curiosity. Never did I say you need to be "Byond's Savior". What I am saying is you need to stop getting worked up over things that happen all the time. The fact that you answer these same types of threads over and over again proves your insanity. Don't know the definiton for insanity? "Insanity is doing something over and over again and expecting the same result." You could say people making the "BYOND needs" threads are insane. However, they aren't because they're each a different person. However, you claim to respond to all of them, when you know the result will always be the same. | |
when u give people a perfectly logical suggestion as to how to help byond and offer to buy them a membership and they respond by calling u insane
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And done.
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You should probably reread my post because I don't think you understood the point of it and the entrepreneurial business 101 advice you just gave is something I've typed about a hundred times on this site.