http://www.byond.com/forum/?post=1313313
I actually spent a little time yesterday looking at that. I have a feeling that's going to be very complicated, but I'll dig deeper at some point to see what I can find.
Kozuma3 wrote:
I actually spent a little time yesterday looking at that. I have a feeling that's going to be very complicated, but I'll dig deeper at some point to see what I can find. | |
Rushnut wrote:
I had been super hopeful that 511 would be an IDE focused build, however the feature list is far more interesting, so maybe 512 can DM get some love? Please? I have some items on the list like "Run as Guest" and 200% zoom, but things like code folding and tips/autocompletion have been explicitly and repeatedly rejected. I would like those features, but they're too difficult to implement and the cost/reward ratio is not there. | |
I would like those features, but they're too difficult to implement and the cost/reward ratio is not there. He's not kidding. I spent several days working with scintilla a bit ago getting DM syntax highlighting working with code folding. Holy shit it's a nightmare, and DM's semantics do not help things at all. | |
Is there an ETA on 511?
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GreatPirateEra wrote:
Is there an ETA on 511? He listed a lot of features, so I'd say December for a stable version. | |
Yut Put wrote:
Hiead wrote: That awkward moment when you respectfully try to be a dick and fail, thinking one word and typing another. Kappa | |
He listed a lot of features, so I'd say December for a stable version. No matter when it lands, it's gonna be Christmas. | |
Lummox JR wrote:
Rushnut wrote: Just making maps not be a nightmare to edit would be fantastic. We've got uncountable scripts to to be able to handle maps sanely (tag/step removal, merging, path-fixer (DreamMakers functionality usually just crashes), var-renaming, "run DMB with new map") scattered around. Heck, we even had our own map editor at some point but never bothered making it usable. Edit: Actually, let me make a feature request for the "run with map", it's pretty useful for getting around SS13s horrendous compile times. | |
Kumorii wrote:
Lummox JR wrote: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Hey I'm just returning to BYOND after 5 years | |
Hiead wrote:
This would make the shortcut Dream Maker-specific, which would make it therefore more difficult to learn. Just a needle in a haystack. We have to switch mentality and use and remember how the language/tool works all the time. In other words, we deal with specifics elsewhere and we keep going. My recommendation for Ctrl+Q, Ctrl+W, Ctrl+E are more because of the position they have in most keyboards. Easy to use, easy to reach, easy to remember, etc. Hey, maybe some clickable icons to create specific files would be nice, but that would be more work. I think code block highlighting is superior to code folding.  With coloring you have a more obvious visual representation of what code folding is supposed to help the user do. Concentrate on the relevant code, but with less actions. Another "nice-to-have" would be to force specific code formatting rules, and in my opinion, the stair-step indentation with a 1 tab step. If there was only one way to do things, it becomes easier to work, to teach, to learn and less room for error. | |
Lummox JR wrote:
I actually spent a little time yesterday looking at that. I have a feeling that's going to be very complicated, but I'll dig deeper at some point to see what I can find. YES! | |
2DExtremeProductions wrote:
Another "nice-to-have" would be to force specific code formatting rules, and in my opinion, the stair-step indentation with a 1 tab step. Seems redundant, everyone has their own "style" when it comes to writing code imo. | |
Kozuma3 wrote:
Seems redundant, everyone has their own "style" when it comes to writing code imo. Because the capability exists. So many tools would not exist if only "providing some flexibility in the way code is formatted" was viewed as a bad thing. I know people will throw fruit at me for suggesting it, but learning from other people/companies would lower overall cost and time, I am for strict practices. I also favor verbosity over abbreviations. KISS(principle) as much as possible! =) | |
Hiead wrote:
A similar example is in DM's beloved Ctrl+K, which of course builds the project. This truly should be optionally changed to Ctrl+B, the industry-wide standard for "Build." All of JetBrains' stuff uses CTRL K for commit. CTRL B is jump to declaration. My point is, there isn't really an industry-wide standard, so just let the user decide. | |
Kozuma3 wrote:
2DExtremeProductions wrote: Yes, and that is not a good thing when you're supposed to be working within the confines of a set of given rules. | |
Ter13 wrote:
^I agree with Hiead. The reason shortcuts make sense is because DM doesn't have intellisense. The minute that became a standard, languages stopped abbreviating names. We probably shouldn't be adopting dead paradigms. intellisense in BYOND would be amazing. Is that something remotely feasible? | |
intellisense in BYOND would be amazing. Is that something remotely feasible? I'd like us to have an editor team that works with Lummox to modernize the developer side of things. Barring that, I think with the resources we have, it's not feasible for the purposes of time less so than possibility. | |
Ter13 wrote:
intellisense in BYOND would be amazing. Is that something remotely feasible? Yes it's true, Dream Maker as a code editor/icon editor/mapping tool isn't really maintainable in the current schema, and changes to the DM language should be more important to Lummox anyway. To me, at least, it seems as if it would be superior if Dream Maker was either open sourced or as you said passed on to an 'editor team' to work on it (though I'm not sure who would be on such a team). Though perhaps I'm being presumptuous. | |
If anyone is interested in developing tools for Sublime, etc. that might be useful for editing DM code in a more modern IDE, I'd be more than happy to work with them in terms of whatever they would need for hooks.
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I think you meant "respectfully." In any case, this is an awful suggestion. These shorthands, or accelerators, are standard. Part of writing an application is in increasing familiarity and usability. A vast majority of applications use these shortcuts as they are. Ctrl+Q is universally equated to "Quit"---so many users will try to use it as such. Being presented with a new code file (which has no relationship to the letter Q to begin with), is in fact the very opposite of quitting the application. This would make the shortcut Dream Maker-specific, which would make it therefore more difficult to learn.
A similar example is in DM's beloved Ctrl+K, which of course builds the project. This truly should be optionally changed to Ctrl+B, the industry-wide standard for "Build." It's very frustrating if you jump between development environments and suddenly you're pressing Ctrl+B in DM and Ctrl+K in [Visual Studio, Qt Creator, ...]. Unfortunately, due to how finely ingrained this particular shortcut is in the DM environment, it definitely would need to be an optional switch or a very visible one, as I'm sure many long-term users would face it with some backlash.
Well, if I press "Command+W" right now, on my Mac in the Google Chrome browser, it will close the current tab. A couple quick Google results:
Ctrl+W could be changed to Ctrl+F4, which is what Microsoft prefers, but notice how much more difficult this becomes to type suddenly.