I'd like to conduct some surveys on the BYOND community.

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Feb 21 2016, 1:09 pm
@Toddab:
I usually consider back-burner projects to be in the same category as "abandoned." There's always the possibility of picking it up again, sure.

How do you feel about the Webclient?

Do you know other programming languages besides DM? You can list up to ten.
Feb 21 2016, 1:27 pm
In response to Mr_Goober
Ah, well I have a different point of view there. I usually back-burner a project because another one can be completed faster, so I can finish one then go back to it.

Mr_Goober wrote:
How do you feel about the Webclient?

Do you know other programming languages besides DM? You can list up to ten.

I'm pretty excited about it, honestly. I think it has a great deal of potential, and I'm excited to use it with most of my future projects at some point. Although I think I'm more excited about the improved exe-like option it could lead to, and more than anything I'm just excited to see better ways to distribute our games in general.

Well, I used to work on websites almost as much as I do games, and got pretty into it all. Some consider some of it scripting more so than programming languages, but I know HTML (Does this even count anymore? lol), CSS, PHP, and sort of Javascript. My PHP needs practice badly, and my Javascript is weak/partial however.

I've taken a look at Python, Unity, and Java. Python would be a pretty easy addition, Unity wouldn't be too terribly difficult, and Java is pretty different but really once you know one language any language becomes much easier. I just don't have much interest in new languages, except maybe mysql. I'll be getting into it all a lot more once I get into university.
Feb 21 2016, 1:29 pm
What's the very first thing you do when you open a new project in DM?

Think about what's on the tip of my mind and begin programming whatever happened to pop in first that I agreed with :D

How often do you abandon projects?

Between 0 and 10 a week lolol.

Does this happen because of some outside circumstance, or is it because you've hit a wall or something?

Motivation, no artwork.

How do you feel about the Webclient?

Does it work yet?

Do you know other programming languages besides DM? You can list up to ten.

DM++
DM#
DM.NET
Feb 21 2016, 1:37 pm (Edited on Feb 21 2016, 1:44 pm)
Kozuma3:
Between 0 and 10 a week lolol.
Haha. :[[[

I'll go ahead and answer my own questions:

What's the very first thing you do when you open a new project in DM?

I actually start with the interface. I always make a win_main window object and place a map control inside of it. Then I usually start writing modules for things like /client and /world (icon_size, fps, view).

How often do you abandon projects? Does this happen because of some outside circumstance, or is it because you've hit a wall or something?

It's always because I'm having issues with design. I'm always trying to figure out ways to get things to work, and I usually go through several different iterations of design methods before I figure out which one looks good. Often times there's a certain point in a project where it becomes complex enough to need to refactor some of it. As a project grows I'm doing more organization than adding new features.

How do you feel about the Webclient?

I'm sure people are excited to use it, but I think that if I wanted to work in HTML5 I'd use JavaScript instead.

Do you know other programming languages besides DM? You can list up to ten.

I know BlitzMax, Game Maker: Studio's GML, AppGameKit BASIC, JavaScript, C++ (to some degree), and various other tools.
Feb 21 2016, 1:50 pm
Here's another for you:

How is your project usually structured? Do you use folders generously, or do you prefer things be kept close on the root directory?

My answer:

I've adapted to using a particular set of folders, of which are named "modules" "data" "media" and "global". Modules contain source code files of which orient around a particular component of the project (hence being a module). Media contains icons, sounds, and other various non-textual information. Data contains things like maps and other things which are loaded/unloaded into the project during runtime. The Global folder contains the root events which are fired off when the application starts, as well as some variables which don't seem to belong to any modules.
Feb 21 2016, 1:54 pm
In response to Mr_Goober
How is your project usually structured? Do you use folders generously, or do you prefer things be kept close on the root directory?

Messy, 110% messy until I get to a point that I feel organizing it would help but when programming I have a habit of remembering where things are by memory so I rarely mess with it.

I'd say shove it all in the root and let it build up until I have to scroll down the list lol.
Feb 21 2016, 2:02 pm
In response to Mr_Goober
Mr_Goober wrote:
Here's another for you:

How is your project usually structured? Do you use folders generously, or do you prefer things be kept close on the root directory?

Well, I like to keep my code, map, and interface files within the root directory. For graphics I divide them into basic categories, such as mobs, terrain, gui, etc. I also like to make a folder for all sound related files.

I find this structure to be pretty quick to set up and use, yet fairly simple as well. I don't think anyone jumping into one of my sources would have much trouble finding things because of it, too, actually. Especially with how my code files are labeled and broken up.
Feb 21 2016, 2:15 pm
During orientation for my current job, I couldn't even manage to keep 6 or 7 sheets of paper organized in front of me so that should give you an idea of how I structure my projects. I usually pile all the icons into an "Icons.dmi", for instance so when I open it, there's like 40 different sprites ( some animated ), and then I'll copy and paste them out of there into other files in an attempt to maintain my sanity but then that just causes there to be like 30 DMI files with no folder. I do the same with a "Turfs.dmi" file. And then my brain explodes and RIP EmpirezTeam 2016.
Feb 22 2016, 9:04 am
I feel like if i answer these i would seem even more incompetent than usual.
Feb 22 2016, 9:54 am
Where is the next question, chop chop Goober Pooper.
Feb 22 2016, 1:20 pm
In response to Ghost of ET
Ghost of ET wrote:
I feel like if i answer these i would seem even more incompetent than usual.

Everyone has their own way of doing things :D
Feb 23 2016, 2:38 am
What's the very first thing you do when you open a new project in DM?

This depends on what kind of project I'm working on. It can range from working on icons first to code.

How often do you abandon projects? Does this happen because of some outside circumstance, or is it because you've hit a wall or something?

More like either on hiatus or retired. Some projects have also disappeared in the past. Text City Simulator is one project that is still on hiatus for several years. There were only a very few projects I abandoned and those were worked on almost 10 years ago.

How do you feel about the Webclient?

As you already know, I feel that is great the webclient is being worked on. It unlocks many new capabilities provided by HTML5 (depending on the capabilities of each browser). You also already know I've been conducting work with WebGL. While I need to provide my own WebGL code in the future to prevent dependency, I have managed to use bits for the Support Library that would work great without much of any performance penalty. One such example is the ability to load external shader script files (using DM to load them and output them directly to the webclient to compile).

Do you know other programming languages besides DM? You can list up to ten.

Yes. I know BASIC (old-school I mean), C/C++, Assembly (x86 and even some MIPS), Java, C#, JavaScript, PHP, some Lua, and even some Python.

How is your project usually structured? Do you use folders generously, or do you prefer things be kept close on the root directory?

This varies by project. Many years ago, I used to store everything in the root directory. As projects have gotten more complex, I have relied more on organizing them. Some projects will use multiple folders to achieve that.
Feb 23 2016, 5:20 am
Everyone knows balancing code and writing obtuse systems takes priority.

Making a fun game is a bridge that can be crossed when you come to it.
Feb 23 2016, 9:32 am
Okay cool, two new people just replied to the questions. Here's the next couple:

When did you first begin using DM? How do you like it compared to other languages (if you know any)?

There's a lot of allegations saying that the community is doomed, or that we're incompetent to make anything worth "saving" BYOND. What's your take on it?

My answers:

I joined BYOND in 2004 not really knowing what I was looking for, mostly because I was just a teenager at the time and was bored. I played around with it and couldn't really figure it out that well. It wasn't until somewhere like 2009-2010 where I actually started to understand DM and took development much more seriously.

---

I'd have to say that the forum only takes up a very small portion of the community altogether. I know that there's talk about BYOND needing saving or something like that, but I can say that it's likely that the voices we're hearing are only a very small percentage of who's really out there. There's a ton of unlisted games which use the BYOND engine mostly because they conflict with the IP of another franchise, but I feel that there's a nicer, more adaptive community that we're not really considering.
Feb 23 2016, 9:35 am
I'm just gonna leave this here:

3. it's been out for like 2 years and still isn't suitable for games. Hell, it still even has the balls ugly unhideable overlay. It's kind of a low key joke tbh

Incorrect.
Feb 23 2016, 9:58 am
When did you first begin using DM? How do you like it compared to other languages (if you know any)?

It's the worst language I've ever learned.

There's a lot of allegations saying that the community is doomed, or that we're incompetent to make anything worth "saving" BYOND. What's your take on it?

It's the blatant truth. The worst wannabe programmers I've ever seen are right here.
Feb 23 2016, 10:40 am
In response to Mr_Goober
Mr_Goober wrote:
When did you first begin using DM? How do you like it compared to other languages (if you know any)?

About a week after I started playing BYOND games in 2005. I've always been the type to hate backing down from a challenge, so when the kid at school who introduced me to the site said "You won't be able to make a game, it's too hard and it takes months", I was dead set on proving him wrong.

I like the language. It's pretty much always been good enough to make the things I want to make and if it wasn't, I would just go learn something else instead of whining about how limited the engine is.

There's a lot of allegations saying that the community is doomed, or that we're incompetent to make anything worth "saving" BYOND. What's your take on it?

In a nutshell, BYOND as a site or business has failed and will continue to fail as long as the focus is on hobbyist game development instead of professional game development.

Take YouTube for example. You think it would be as large as it is today if no one was making money off of it? If everyone was just like "Oh, I just do this as a hobby, I don't really take any of this seriously." The driving force behind YouTube are the content creators who treat it like a career. Who are passionate about it and wake up everyday and live and breathe making videos. We don't have anyone like that here besides maybe Yut. When I look at everyone else, I don't see a passion for game development, I just see people who enjoy doing it on their spare time here and there.

One of the frustrating things as well is even after multiple attempts at trying to steer the community in the direction of taking this stuff seriously because you CAN actually make money from BYOND, or to get some people who had more of a say when it came to the direction we should've taken development in, the suggestions were typically ignored. I remember talking to Schnitzelnagler in like 2008 or something( who was a moderator ) and I told him "hey, you know what would be neat? if we started focusing more on adding features to help people get their games OUTSIDE of BYOND, like really nailing down the stand-alone aspects for instance" and his response went something like "your priorities are all wrong, getting your game outside of BYOND is not something you should be concerned about". And then fast-forward to 2015-2016 and one of the hottest topics is the web client and how it'll help with more exposure and getting games seen elsewhere on the internet, and I'm just sitting here like "dude, I said that shit 7 years ago and NOBODY cared, why is it suddenly at the top of everyone's to-do list years later?"

This is why I basically just come to read the shitposts. Clicking on BYOND everyday is more of a habit, like muscle memory, than me actually wanting to come to the site. Everything I've done gaming related since about 2009 has been done offsite under different aliases and different software. BYOND as a game creation engine is fine. BYOND as a community of passionate and productive game developers looking to actually make something of themselves is probably going to remain a dream and never turn into a reality. See what I did there with the dream? The "D" in "BYOND"? I came up with that all by myself.
Feb 23 2016, 10:46 am
In response to EmpirezTeam
Preech.
Feb 23 2016, 10:58 am (Edited on Feb 23 2016, 11:04 am)
EmpirezTeam wrote:
I like the language. It's pretty much always been good enough to make the things I want to make and if it wasn't, I would just go learn something else instead of whining about how limited the engine is.

The language itself is limiting, not just the engine. The language can exist independently of the engine.

We don't have anyone like that here besides maybe Yut.

He doesn't participate every day like it's a job. Idk why you're so delusional as to blindly compliment him. It used to be Silk Wizard that the community used to do that to.

seriously because you CAN actually make money from BYOND

You CAN make money without it too... And look. If you're not going to pickup skills that professional game developers have: C++, Graphic Design, etc, nothing you're ever going to make will be of quality.

People that need BYOND don't possess those capabilities and will always make low quality, unprofessional work. That's why everyone that develops with this software is an amateur.
Feb 23 2016, 11:42 am
1. Wonder why I even bothered.

2. All the time. More than I can count. It happens because it's just a hobby for me and I get bored of certain things.

3. It's cool, might help with certain types of games. I'll probably never use it.

4. Yes. I can list up to 10 other languages but I don't know that many.

5. 2001ish, at the time it made more sense than anything else I'd used.

6.Never say never, but it's been so long and nothing noteworthy has come out of BYOND in all this time. I mean, just recently Game Maker was used to make Undertale, which lots of people are calling one of the best games ever. Game Maker and BYOND came into existence at around the same time, but what does BYOND have to it's name?
Anything can happen, but BYONDs record of producing good games is just none existent. I personally don't think this will change anytime soon.
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