Alright, THIS IS PISSING ME OFF! The only reason why im posting here is because I want others to know this as well. Haroki ripped final flash graphics in DBZ:NN from DBZ-Spar!!! http://angelfire.com/dbz/dbznn/way2.jpg
Thats not friggin right!
ID:194228
 Jul 3 2001, 4:26 pm
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On 7/3/01 7:38 pm Shenron wrote:
On 7/3/01 7:26 pm Ebonshadow wrote: If you're really curious, just back up to the root directory, then click on screenshots. That's what I did. I'm not entirely sure why, but I did. | |
On 7/3/01 7:45 pm LexyBitch wrote:
On 7/3/01 7:38 pm Shenron wrote: or hell, try to copy and paste the link. | |
On 7/3/01 7:46 pm Ebonshadow wrote:
On 7/3/01 7:45 pm LexyBitch wrote: I will never understand how someone manages to get so indignant over someone's pirating of their pirated material. How is what Haroki did to you any different from what you've done with Funimation's ideas, characters, settings, themes, etc? Don't think of it as stealing. Haroki has paid your graphics a tribute. He's created a "fan animation" based on it. He's made a genuine contribution to the Ebonshadow's final flash mythos. And after all, isn't your animation really a fan-driven medium? Don't you, the big animation designer, have better things to do than pick on the little guy who's doing you a favor and giving your animation more exposure? | |
Ebon never really stole the stuff from funimation because he isn't getting credit for the show or merchandice. But Haroki is trying to get credit for something ebon worked on. Don't know if that made sence but I tried.
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or hell, try to copy and paste the link. Well, I could see what your saying if Dragonball Z was a game. But its not, its a TV show. And lets face it, people make games about shows all the time, toys too. Reason for this is because the fans of that show will be attracted to the game. Its not really stealing anything from the show since the show is not loosing anything. I really doubt that people stopped watching dragonball z because I made DBZ-Spar. In fact, I know a few who never even watched the show but play the game. If I wanted, I could easily change DBZ-Spar so that it wasn't dbz. I dont think funimation would mind, just as I wouldn't mind if Haroki edited my Final Flash graphics enough so it wasn't final flash. However, he didn't even edit it or add to it(where as I have added and edited the dbz theme). | |
On 7/3/01 7:54 pm Carot wrote:
Ebon never really stole the stuff from funimation because he isn't getting credit for the show or merchandice. But Haroki is trying to get credit for something ebon worked on. Don't know if that made sence but I tried. There's more than just the show and the merchandise. There's the characters, the names, the themes, the gimmicks... that's all considered intellectual property, which of course is a bit of an oxymoron when the property in question is DBZ. But it's still the DBZ creators' intellectual property anyways. | |
Don't think of it as stealing. Haroki has paid your graphics a tribute. He's created a "fan animation" based on it. He's made a genuine contribution to the Ebonshadow's final flash mythos. And after all, isn't your animation really a fan-driven medium? Don't you, the big animation designer, have better things to do than pick on the little guy who's doing you a favor and giving your animation more exposure? Nasty point. Fortunately, all of my games are proudly original. That's the way they're staying. Well, that's partially a lie... I'm revamping Viper5555's (aka. Mike Schmoyer's) Derby 600 into a new version of the same, Derby 6000, with much more advanced race dynamics. Mike isn't with BYOND anymore. Which is a pity. | |
On 7/3/01 7:26 pm Ebonshadow wrote:
Alright, THIS IS PISSING ME OFF! The only reason why im posting here is because I want others to know this as well. Haroki ripped final flash graphics in DBZ:NN from DBZ-Spar!!! http://angelfire.com/dbz/dbznn/way2.jpgi didnt actually i havent even seen final flash in spar yet. all i did was resized a graphic from a gif on the internet? i can even show you it if you want? | |
On 7/3/01 7:58 pm Leftley wrote:
There's more than just the show and the merchandise. There's the characters, the names, the themes, the gimmicks... that's all considered intellectual property, which of course is a bit of an oxymoron when the property in question is DBZ. But it's still the DBZ creators' intellectual property anyways. But still, I don't try to claim that I invented dragonball Z. The game is actually more of a tribute to dbz. | |
On 7/3/01 7:54 pm Carot wrote:
Ebon never really stole the stuff from funimation because he isn't getting credit for the show or merchandice. But Haroki is trying to get credit for something ebon worked on. Don't know if that made sence but I tried. No, it didn't make sense. :P I understand what you're saying, but it doesn't make sense. It's just more of the same double-talk that people use to justify their harmless piracy. Saiyan and Namek (whatever the hell those things are) and all that other nonsense BELONGS to Funimation. It's their property. Using someone else's property without their permission is stealing. Now, personally, I don't have a problem with fan games or fan fiction... but I attach two caveats to that. 1) The owner of the intellectual property should be given at least lip service, and if they tell you specifically to shut down, do it. It's their property, after all. 2) No hypocrisy about it. If you're treating someone else's work as public domain, be prepared for others to treat yours the same. | |
On 7/3/01 8:01 pm Haroki wrote:
On 7/3/01 7:26 pm Ebonshadow wrote: I was going to ask Ebon about this, but didn't want to take away from my main point by adding a side point. You guys are copying from the same source (DBZ), of course your graphics are going to look incredibly similar. I wasn't even sure how he thought you stole his graphic... hacked into his hard drive? Hee. | |
On 7/3/01 7:57 pm Ebonshadow wrote:
or hell, try to copy and paste the link. At the risk of sounding like I'm calling DBZ high art... editing the DBZ theme IS taking something away from DBZ. The people who created DBZ did everything the way they did for a reason. Some of it's marketing, some of it is no doubt the creators' artistic intent. When you edit that, when you take your own ideas and present them as DBZ (even with a disclaimer stating it's not official)... you're DAMAGING someone's artistic vision. That's why some authors/creators are more relentless about quashing fan fiction than others... some bodies of work are intended to occupy a very narrow scope, and broadening it takes away from their power. Your game is not a tribute to DBZ, it's a perversion of it. Maybe not a particularly bad perversion. But a perversion nonetheless. | |
On 7/3/01 8:03 pm LexyBitch wrote:
On 7/3/01 7:54 pm Carot wrote: PLz stop saying Funimation owns DBZ it owns the Dubbed version and no one care about the dubbed version, as for making the game as a perversion of DBZ the show in some ways it is and some ways it isn't. DBZ:NN, and Spar don't use the actual names like Vegeta, or Bejita it is the users choice but using the names of the races was made directly from the show. I don't think there is anything wrong with this considering the ammount Web sites there are on the subject I don't think Funimation nor Toie animation really care if they make games about it as long as they are not making money off of it, if they were making income from the game then Funimation would most likely step in and expect comensation for the use of their show and they would probably take it over, but since no money is being made by either Ebonshadow or Haroki there is no problem. | |
On 7/3/01 7:57 pm Ebonshadow wrote:
And lets face it, people make games about shows all the time, toys too. They sure do, and guess who they are? The owners of the copyrights!! That's right, they are allowed to make money off of their own intellectual property! Its not really stealing anything from the show since the show is not loosing anything. The law is the law whether you think it's right or not. Truth is, they might not care. Who knows? Well you don't, for one. Here's a hypothetical... what if the maker of DragonballZ wanted to make a tile-based game based on their show? For that matter, what if they wanted to make it using the BYOND system? Guess what? No one would buy it because the market is already saturated with copycats! Still think they're not being hurt? | |
On 7/3/01 9:11 pm Shenron wrote:
...I don't think Funimation nor Toie animation really care if they make games about it as long as they are not making money off of it, if they were making income from the game then Funimation would most likely step in and expect comensation for the use of their show and they would probably take it over, but since no money is being made by either Ebonshadow or Haroki there is no problem. I just had a thought... Let's find out if they care, shall we. Any objections? | |
On 7/3/01 9:19 pm Skysaw wrote:
On 7/3/01 9:11 pm Shenron wrote: Wonderful idea. I think someone should e-mail Funi and ask if it's alright for us to make these games. We might even get some sort of suprise out of it. | |
On 7/3/01 8:01 pm Ebonshadow wrote:
But still, I don't try to claim that I invented dragonball Z. The game is actually more of a tribute to dbz. Exactly! Haroki didn't claim that he made that graphic. | |
On 7/3/01 9:11 pm Shenron wrote:
On 7/3/01 8:03 pm LexyBitch wrote: Sorry. I think DBZ sucks ass period, so I didn't bother doing any research. I just go by what others have said. Anyways, bottom line is it doesn't matter who owns it... it ain't anyone here! as for making the game as a perversion of DBZ the show in some ways it is and some ways it isn't. DBZ:NN, and Spar don't use the actual names like Vegeta, or Bejita it is the users choice but using the names of the races was made directly from the show. In EVERY way it is. The things that are different are what makes it a perversion. Note: "to pervert" means to twist, change, or corrupt. I don't think there is anything wrong with this considering the ammount Web sites there are on the subject Okay. Everyone rips it off. That doesn't make it right. I'm not saying it's a mortal sin or anything... I'm just saying none of the DBZ-game-making-people here have any right to whine about others taking their code or graphics or sound or anything (all examples of intellectual property) as long as they're taking someone else's intellectual property. I don't think Funimation nor Toie animation really care if they make games about it as long as they are not making money off of it, if they were making income from the game then Funimation would most likely step in and expect comensation for the use of their show and they would probably take it over, but since no money is being made by either Ebonshadow or Haroki there is no problem. I agree with Skysaw. Let's all send Funimation and Toie a letter explaining the situation in BYOND, that people are using characters and visual likenesses and themes from their property and making their own games from them. Let's tell them that every day, there's more people doing this, and there's no apparent end in sight. That people are taking their own ideas and tacking them on to the original concept haphazardly. Do you honestly think they won't have any objections? If you do, go ahead and send the letter. (Note: please don't. The answer is, of course they'll object! And then they'll get on Dan and Tom for allowing it. Which'll be bad for everyone in the community. Which is why we're always begging people to stop doing this in the first place. Aside from the fact that DBZ sucks ass, and not in a good way.) | |
Yeah....anglefire usually doesn't allow image linking so I can't even see it...