Please, please quit being so petty. You always insist on dragging things on, especially after I make an attempt to bring some sence into things, you did it with that other thread as well.

I would really prefur you didnt reply to this, unless of course your actually going to name a band Limp Bizkit imitates.

Botman wrote:

And in further tradition of "ignore it and it'll go away", I'm not going to bother reading the other thread anymore.

Actually shutting up would make it go away, since you've made a bigger fool of yourself than on that storylines thread, most of which I didn't even read. But from what I gathered of the conclusion there, it seems that in both threads you showed the same pigheaded narrow view that your "generation" sees things one way and that's that. Since you're ignoring the last thread now, I am forced to repost my response to one of your less intelligent diatribes:

Botman wrote:

It makes you part of a brain-dead subculture too stupid to bother to learn the meanings behind what it's saying.

Welcome to the future. A generation that isnt scared to do what it wants.

Stupidity is not something to be embraced, nor proud of. If your "generation" (I wish you'd have the brains to stop abusing that term), by which I mean you and your friends, twist the meanings of every word you learn--or, as you've aptly demonstrated, fail to learn--you're going to get about as much respect as pimps in an art gallery. Contrary to your belief, there are plenty of people in any generation who don't succumb to the lies of linguistic relativism as completely as you have. The leaders of any given culture are those who maintain true focus, clear sight, and can communicate effectively; conversely, there are always putzes who equate mass ignorance with pride in their generation.

Grr, listen, please. I know the N word is still offensive to many. To many older people.

To many younger people too. There are lots of contexts where this word is a Bad Idea. Your refusal to characterize this as anything but an old/young schism is absolutely irrational. Buy yourself a clue.

Aside from repeating Gughunter reguarding context, I should point out, it was a negro on ABC world news who is an expert in Social Studies and racism who I'm quoting when I say "The youth of today has decided No, I'm not going to be offended by the word nigger, I'm pround of it and will embrace it". You see it as an insult. We dont. Simple.

Not simple. You're talking about a single voice from a mouthpiece that's prone to say such things, and in fact it too is wrong when it's referring to the youth of "today". As I explained in another post, the "friendly" contexts of the N word have existed for a very long time. The unfriendly ones haven't gone away, even among younger people.

I wasn't talking about your group of friends' views on profanity. I was talking about what is and isn't profanity. Black and white. Some words are cuss words. Deal with it.

Yeah, but so what? Just because they are a profanity, doesnt mean they are still used as an insult.

Nor did I say anything about profanity as it relates to insults.

The fact that you don't have a problem saying this stuff around your friends or vice-versa is irrelevant to the meaning and content. This is not an "our generation" thing, and each comment you make along those lines only pegs you as a cretin. You've bought in way too easily to a lot of popular myths, but you can't really defend them without spouting off a dozen more.

Either that or your just refusing to accept the truth and dont like the way things are going. Perhaps youd agree more if I said its an enviromental thing. The environment we have grown up in has lead us to view many of these things as being acceptable. To be honest, I'm surprised someone of your intelligence would doubt this.

You just made my point for me, spouting off more of those myths, like "the way things are going". The phenomenon you speak of is absolutely nothing new.

If you want to call this an environmental thing, you're closer to the truth than with your loony "generation" nonsense. It is of course no surprise that a bunch of people who go to the same school, or live in the same area, etc., will grow up with some similarities in their value system. They will also tend to absorb the same foolish cutural lies.

Swearing is profanity by definition. If you can call it swearing, it's also profanity, and vice-versa. That's what the words mean. Do you actually speak English or what?

What the heck is your point? Get with it. Swearing for us doesnt carry the weight it once did. Its as simple as that. Im starting to doubt you really are very inteligent, the same way Im refurring to endless cliches about generation x etc, your giving the views of a blatantly stereotypical parent. I might as well go try to convince my Dad to like LB, at least that would be productive.

My point was, you said swearing wasn't necessarily profanity. But it is profanity, because that's the definition of the word. Whether it's offensive, however, is an entirely separate concept.

You're also making a rash assumption in assuming I'm an entire generation older than you, or that I'm a parent. I'm not a parent, and I have probably half a generation at best in age difference from you. By saying that I'm making an assumption, that you're in an age group from about 12 to 18, but I'm guessing I'm right on that call. You have all the brash "I know all the answers" smugness of a typical teenager, but with less brains than most.

I haven't seen you refer to any cliches about Generation X; the only thing you've said about it is to insist that the term has a variable meaning that can be warped to mean "the current generation". Well, it doesn't, nor is an elephant a giraffe or a breadbox a watermelon. You have to face up to the fact that although your friends may all use the phrase "Generation X" the same way you do, they (and you) use it that way because you learned it incorrectly, thought it meant something it didn't, and have been consistently misusing it ever since. It would be just as incorrect to call yourself a baby boomer, for the exact same reasons.

And you have completely missed my point. My point is not that you remove the offense from a word by overuse, but that you remove its meaning. It becomes less meaningful in your speech than a word like "the"; it's complete white noise, and you're including it in every sentence for no reason whatsoever.

The reason is because in what I can only call an attempt to "rebell", its cool. And see, now yourve gotten the point. The swearing in LB etc isnt ment as offensive, its ment to appeal to "us", and frankly, it does.

No doubt it does appeal to those who confuse swearing with rebellion, or profanity with deep and insightful meaning. Of course, if you consider a word to be completely inoffensive, one wonders why you would associated it with rebellion in the first place.

Poetry remains popular, though often it takes time and maturity to learn to appreciate it, or to be able to figure out what the poet is saying. Poetry is also key to writing a good song, because the ability to express an idea through lyrics is limited by a time factor.

What use is it though if people just ignore it? Take Eminem. When you take the time to look past the marketing ploy that is his controversy, he actually has great skill.

Frankly I don't see it. Eminem is funny, but only because his "annoying white rapper" bit is a novelty. I haven't seen anything from him to convince me of skill on his part. That doesn't mean he has none, of course, but maybe the novelty is really all he has going for him.
Don't you dare drag out another stupid "You just don't get it because you're older" response here.

I really cant say I see much in the way of poetry in ever day life (while I see planty of music, tv, advertising etc). It may remain popular to many, but I think its become increasingly less mainsteam. Or maybe it never did greatly apeal to youth. Perhaps it is one art form than requires maturity to fully appreciate.

I think poetry does appeal to youth, but less so than to adults. You're right on that count, that it takes some maturity to begin to really get poetry. However, a very good poem can carry shockingly clear meanings through to even young audiences, and in music it helps to take advantage of this.

You've completely ignored my point about the richness of language involved in making a good poem, while making another one of your rock stupid "my generation/your generation" statements. Come the heck off that point, man; it's making you look like an idiot.

Its not my problem if you dont like the truth. The generation gap is cleary the defining difference here.

There is no generation gap. That's just your twisted, boneheaded, wrong worldview getting in the way again. What you're defending is not a generation but a subculture, and others share that subculture who are even older than you. To imply that your "generation" is somehow massively different from those even slightly before it is ridiculous, and neither history nor truth bear out your point.

Another brainless generation comment.

Yup, keep using insults to deny the truth.

What you've been saying isn't "the truth", but only a skewed interpretation of the world through your own opinions. The truth is, your "generation" is a vast group of people that extends beyond your circle of friends, your school, or your country, and its tastes are wide and varied. Its values vary significantly, as do its viewpoints. You have one particular viewpoint, that you seem to perceive you share with others (how many others, one can never know), and stupidly insist that that's the way your "generation" sees everything.

Anyway, you missed what I ment? I'm saying swearing will become common place when we grow up, not that being common will stand out.

Swearing has been around for centuries. One could argue that it's more common today than 50 years ago, or 100 maybe, but I strongly doubt the next 20 to 50 years will see significantly more swearing than today.
In order to be truly eloquent, a much greater vocabulary and richer forms of expression are required. And the eloquent, like it or not, drive society, because they're the ones who can make themselves heard amid a chaos of a thousand ideas. No matter how accepted profanity becomes in mainstream society, there will always be those who recognize that to be heard, they must distance themselves from it.

No, I said they weren't bubble gum pop. Limp Bizkit doesn't even come close to bubble gum pop; it's a completely different genre, and I've already said so. Are you paying attention or what?

Not really. My attention span in interest in this thread was shot long ago. Im not too sure why Im even still posting. I think i'll stop soon.

This is precisely my point, though. In lots of cases you've shown you didn't know what you were talking about, or worse that you didn't even understand what others were talking about. You have not argued your point rationally.

Lummox JR

Botman wrote:

Please, please quit being so petty. You always insist on dragging things on, especially after I make an attempt to bring some sence into things, you did it with that other thread as well.

I would really prefur you didnt reply to this, unless of course your actually going to name a band Limp Bizkit imitates.

You're the one dragging it on, by even bringing up a new thread. You seem desperately to want the last word--but you're not going to get it as long as you harp on the same points. They've been shot down already.

I will refer you to my other post on this thread, in which I submit that you've asked a trick question. It is also phrased incorrectly, as no one has accused Limp Bizkit of "imitating" anyone, but merely of sounding a lot like other groups.

Lummox JR

AbyssDragon wrote:

Heh, I still can't get over the idea of the famous foul-mouthed comic as Mr. Conductor on Thomas the Tank Engine...

He's on Shining Times Station, or some weird named show like that. I worked in a preschool for awhile, and I happened to see that on TV there.. I almost didn't recognize him, it being such an absurd role for him to be cast into.. but once I did, I was rolling on the floor laughing.

-AbyssDragon

Actually the original conductor was none other than Ringo Starr! :-)

*Edit* I see Lummox actually responded to a post I said I wasn't going to read. Good going man. Get a life.

I also he still hasn't posted a similar band. Cookie cutter my ass. Stop draggin the other thread into this. You can dodge this all you want, but until you answer that simple question, which, I add, is not some "trick", then LB can't be cookie cutter.

I know these threads always spiral out of proportion, but I am still surprised to find someone more pathetic than even myself when it comes to draggin things on.*End Edit*

This is a joke right? "You are carrying it on". So are you. Ooh, that was clever. Heres my reply to you:

Welcome to the Club Of Monumental Stupidity, your the second member.

Reguarding you telling me to I could shut up to make it go away.

I'm not going to just shut up, becuase I'm not wrong. Why? Because everything I said was simply my oppinion, and oppinions arn't be right or wrong. I don't know how you do things, but I don't just roll over and give up. The creations thread had nothing to do with generations. You think my view is pig headed? Well step back for a moment and think. Cause I could easily say the same thing about you. But I didn't. Why? Because it's a waste of time as it wouldn't have any effect. And even I am above that. Until now I thought you were too.

Why do you expect me to agree with your view on things, when you won't agree on mine? You appear totally blind to that. I know certain words have different meanings in different context and in different company. Big whoop.

Just because Generation X, Next, the Generation Gap and anything like that are re-used or cliches doesn't mean they are wrong or lack meaning.

If, like Lexy, you understandably don't like using "Generation Labels". Look at it like this:

Youth will always change and be different. They will always express themselves in new and different ways, but in ways which appeal to those of similar age/generation/environment. It's human nature to want to be part of a group.

Amongst my friends and, from what mass media had shown me, youth around the world of a similar age, swearing is just one way we can be different from "adults", and fit in as part of the group. Just like piercings, and dying my hair. This make me differnt from teh masses and more accepted amongst my peers. And acceptance is what everyone desires.

This is why Limp Bizkit swears. It's lacks meaning or weight. It's blank. Maybe to you it's vulgar. To me, it makes Limp Bizkit more appealing. My perants don't like it, my friends do. Simple.

I really don't care about anything more you have to say. I don't care if you think you have "defeated me".
To use the logic you used when you made a post saying I was carrying things on, I say this:

"Limp Bizkit is not 'cookie cutter' because 'cookie cutter' has no meaning other than a untensil to cut cookies. I searched altavista, I searched dictionary.com, I searched wordwizard.com, theasorus.com and multiple other sites. Nothing. How can Limp Bizkit be cookie cutter? Theres no such thing."

In the words of "My Generation": I just like fucking people off. I don't believe most of the stuff I type. This just backfired because your more pathetic than me.

Now have fun flaming me. Because I'm going to "lose" now by giving up on this thread.

My appologies to everyone who isn't Lummox for filling your forum with this rubbish. Sorry to waste your server space Tom.

Botman wrote:

Youth will always change and be different. They will always express themselves in new and different ways, but in ways which appeal to those of similar age/generation/environment. It's human nature to want to be part of a group.

Youth always does the same sort of things thier parents did when they were young, and think it's new.

Amongst my friends and, from what mass media had shown me, youth around the world of a similar age, swearing is just one way we can be different from "adults", and fit in as part of the group. Just like piercings, and dying my hair. This make me differnt from teh masses and more accepted amongst my peers. And acceptance is what everyone desires.

You are setting yourself apart from the masses by doing what you see kids your age doing in the media? If I say naughty things, I'll be different by being like everyone else?

This is why Limp Bizkit swears. It's lacks meaning or weight. It's blank. Maybe to you it's vulgar. To me, it makes Limp Bizkit more appealing. My perants don't like it, my friends do. Simple.

The same story since the dawn of humankind. It's nothing new.

The larger portion of the world's population is the youth. I find it ironic that you accused Lummox of not liking music just because "he's not supposed to be," and yet your argument has finally been reduced to "I'm a brainless walking cliche without an original thought in my head, and I'm proud."

I'm not ashamed to admit that you disgust me. You're not a rebel. You're doing exactly what's expected of you. You're not shocking or unique... you're the ultimate conformist. You're taking the safest possible route through childhood. I have no doubt that you'll bend to social pressure as easily as an adult as you do now.

The kid who speaks quietly and skitters between classes with Emily Dickinson (a mostly unvulgar poet) beneath his or her arm... that's a rebel.

I agree. Botman, if you're so rebellious, then by all means, REBEL. Don't be another MTV zombie... as long as you are, your life is controlled by marketing decisions made by prevous generations!

LexyBitch wrote:

The kid who speaks quietly and skitters between classes with Emily Dickinson (a mostly unvulgar poet) beneath his or her arm... that's a rebel.

Well put, Lexy. You hit the nail on the head.

loud != important