That's the problem I think most people have. Most of them are completely community driven and not in a good way. They're extremely uninteractive and are just that, lazy chat rooms with vague anime icons.

The following is my view on the topic of fan-games when talking to Ter about the first BYOND and Without podcast.

[Sunday, August 30, 2015 06:57] :
<<< Lol, I feel like I have a different view than what was expressed so far.
I don't dislike fangames, I don't even dislike rips. I've been known to speak out about a lot of fangames and rips, even suggesting people stay away from both genres. I, of course, have developed on a Zeta rip, one of the biggest on BYOND and made the topic Programming a Rip: How To. I am in support of people using freely available sources to just get in and tinker with when learning, it's a fun way to start out. Especially when you're younger and don't fully grasp it; I remember being young and having friends just changing variables and adding in libraries, and I was amazed -they- were able to do so, knowing their limited experience and knowledge first-hand, which is kinda what made me start tinkering with sources. However, trying to just change a couple of things and say it's a completely different game(I like how SS13 is in this manner, where all the different severs are just modified versions of each other, without claiming to be anything else). People like to take a source, change some of the visuals(mostly with illegal-to-use art) and jumble the map around, add a few libraries that're popular in rips of that core source, slap a donation/subscription button with in-game 'rewards', and get praised for it by hundreds of players.
It sets a poor standard and continues in a downward spiral, which needs to be corrected.
On the flip side of that, the 'original' fangames, most people developing these have little to no experience in development and extremely low standards of quality, often times falling victim to the 'BYOND Standard', which lowers ends in either the developer giving up or releasing one of those really low-quality games that usually just has a few nice visuals and never gets anywhere.
There's no reason for anyone -with- experience to work on a fangame, because they know they'll never be able to profit from it, in any meaning of the word.
Sorry, I felt left out and had to share my view </3

Back when I had my Megaman fan game up, that community was actually kind of lively. Frankly, I still have a strong urge to make a new one. At this point in my life, and in BYOND's development, I'd be able to make a very polished and faithful game. I just always feel held back because there's an expectation that I make my own games and ideas because I'm one of the few around here capable of doing anything with them. I certainly have plenty of ideas, and I consider myself a decent designer, but there's still a strong urge in me to use that in a fan game for this horribly-neglected series of which I'm a fanatic -- mostly because I'm consistently passionate about it.

Will that get rid of the other crappy fan games? Absolutely not. No matter how much good stuff there is at the top, there will always be an ocean of crap underneath no matter the platform. All we can do, and it's said over and over, is do our best to make good games, fan or not. Not in service to BYOND, but in service to our own goals as developers.

I think any game would benefit from having a group brainstorming session with a few oldbies and vets. Kaiochao, Yut, Ter, myself and a dozen others are great sources of solid game design advice. I think that could be a definite starting point, too. When you have people who have a deeper understanding of why certain things do and don't work, it not only makes you a more informed person, but it's also possible to steer you in a direction that you never thought of that would be a way better option than you were thinking before.

One of the handicaps I feel like people aren't using is taking more advice from experienced devs as far as gameplay goes. People occasionally do it, but rarely do I ever see someone ask the right questions about their game.

For example, one think almost no one ever asks is what pace of gameplay would best suit their idea? How fast should the core of the game progress during these mechanics. For a combat-centric game like any action RPG or a fighting game, this can differ. It's one of those things that comes down to Dexterity vs Intelligence.

A dexterous player prefers fast-paced combat with split-second decision making, where the outcome of the battle is almost entirely based on their skills of coordination and knowledge of the mechanics. These are your Mortal Kombat or World of Warcraft junkies.

An intelligent player prefers slower, more methodical play such as turn-based strategies. They're your chess players who like taking their time to plan their course of attack turns in advance to outplay their opponent through wit. These types of players are your old-school Final Fantasy or Fire Emblem nerds.

While some games try to combine the two in some way, focusing on one or the other is basically always the better option. It keeps the game from feeling spread-too-thin. Something pretty much every single game on this website has a horrifying habit of doing. Never try to cater to every potential player. Know your audience and focus on making their experience better. Counter-intuitively, you'll find yourself alienating more players the broader strokes you make. People can like a wide range of play styles for any number of genres. It's not like you have just dexterous player or just intelligent players, most people are a combination of the two and will play either game so long as it's fun.

You're asking only about the egg without the chicken. Enlighten yourself, find a better thorough bred chicken if you find the ugly duckling such an abomination.

The answer is obvious from the start. Perhaps the real question should be "Am I the yolk for the chalaza"? And "Why does it smell like something died?". I'll give you a hint, it's not the egg.

Source: http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2010/06/28/ what_are_the_white_things_that_hang_off_an_egg_yolk/

Its not like Zeta itself is a bad source... its the DBZ IP that makes it bad. Zeta is a good "intro to RPG" engine people could use to familiarize themselves with how Role Playing Games work and also allows enough flexibility to become something unique. I know I bring this up alot, but look at IALO. It doesnt look like much but compared to the average DBZ Zeta rip it is 10000x better.

throughout the 10 years that I have been active on Byond, I have always considered ZETA to be a Viable framework for an original IP and I was vocal about it. yes alot of people would disagree just based on the age of the source code and the IP attached to it but that has never stopped people from making successful games using old or outdated engines/sources before.

My solution to the ZETA issue would be to rework the source code and remove all traces of Dragon Ball Z then release it to the public

6:30 AM... neeeeeeed sleeeeeeep

if(strength==5)
if(strength==10)
if(strength==20)
if(strength==30)
if(strength==41)
if(strength==51)

^ what's wrong with that? (just curious o..o)

What's zeta?

Even if i did i would have 0 clue as to what i was reading QQ.

complains about redundancy
Source was originally made in 2003 by amateur Byond Coder.

totes dude