ID:192874
![]() May 4 2002, 7:22 am
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In your own opinion what games on BYOND do you think could make it on store shelves in their final release? In my opinion ShapeShifter would do good because its the kind of game some people enjoy playin g already, not its own genre. But I think Echelon would do the best. Its so close to a complete game, single player or multiplayer modes, differend boards, challenge modes, great graphics, and almost a hundred different ways you could configure a style of play. So in honor of one of my favorite games I will host it regularily.
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Yeah incurion, but MLAAS? Would people be able to run their own servers? since the game relies on save files.
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JordanUl wrote:
Yeah incurion, but MLAAS? Would people be able to run their own servers? since the game relies on save files. Yes. Hes gonna put it up for hosting :P |
Definitly, although the public are so used to these awsome graphics these new engines are cooking up that they could just pass by some of the best games.
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JordanUl wrote:
In your own opinion what games on BYOND do you think could make it on store shelves in their final release? Well, if it's my opinion, none. Reasons: With all the new 3D games and awesome features, It wouldn't sell much, not to mention if you have over 5 people in most byond games, it lages down for 10 seconds every 5 seconds of play. Also the thing with the pager and screen to the right is a little annoying and should be customized so the creater can do whatever to it. Some games may not need or want the text box at all. |
Geo wrote:
JordanUl wrote: It doesnt lag becuase of BYOND. It lags becuase of thier cheap ass connection :P |
It doesnt lag becuase of BYOND. It lags becuase of thier cheap ass connection :P Bingo. BYOND's complete ambiguity in creation systems, and the ability to make any sort of game very quickly -- Battle for Solaris, for example, would take well over half a year, at least, to make in C++ -- is the drawback, but even then it hums along at quite an impressive rate. Besides, the way I see it, 56K modems are now a thing of the past. Most people who have any real desire to play games online are on cable or DSL (or, if they're serious, a T1). If you're using your computer strictly for research and the like, then yes, a 56K will suit you just fine -- but if you're wanting to play games online, a 56K will not serve you. Look at StarCraft over a 56K, for instance. The game runs reasonably smoothly, but you need to take into account that it has an absolute MAXIMUM of 8 people connected. Even then, you'll definitely experience 2-3 second spurts of lag every couple of seconds. It's no small wonder why you see games labelled "High-speed or BAN!" in Battle.net. First-person shooters and the like appear less lagged than they are over a 56K. The reason? Extrapolation. The client program runs an individual copy of the game and sends data to the server based on what it did, where it is, etc. The server sends data to the client (as fast as it can). However, when the server is NOT sending data to the client, the client must guess where all of the bullets, people, and stuff went. It keeps moving them in the direction that they were moving, and then when the server finally sends the data (actually, it's when the client actually receives it), the client makes appropriate corrections to its guesses. If this extrapolation technology didn't exist, you could very reasonably expect Counter-Strike to play like a slideshow. BYOND doesn't have a suitable medium for extrapolation, simply because the environment has too many variables that could all affect movement. For example, in CS, when you start shooting, the client can trace the paths of the bullets on its own. In BYOND, it all relies on the server, meaning that the client can't take guesses as to where the bullets hit. That's not BYOND's fault, but rather, the internet's fault. If you want BYOND to stay as flexible as it is, you'll have to accept the way it works. If you want it to go faster, go bug your parents for high-speed. (Admittedly, however, there's no harm in code optimisation, but from the looks of it Dantom have already done that.) |
It doesnt lag becuase of BYOND. It lags becuase of thier cheap ass connection :P Are you sure? Every game I have played with differant (My Life as a Spy, Proelium (hosted by the maker), and others) hosts goes very slow and ruins the game. I'm standing there one second then I die when the lag goes away. |
Are you sure? Every game I have played with differant (My Life as a Spy, Proelium (hosted by the maker), and others) hosts goes very slow and ruins the game. I'm standing there one second then I die when the lag goes away. My Life as a Spy runs very smoothly for me at almost all times. The highest my network delay has ever reached on my DSL modem is 300 ms. I'm not sure how much of a beast the MLAAS code is, so server lag may or may not play into the lag role as well. |
JordanUl wrote:
Like I said Graphics are nothing if you have a good game that can suck you in to it. Sometimes, but in a roleplaying game or mystery, detail can actually make things seem allot better. Think of a game, such as My Life as a Spy (allot of people here think it's very good), then imagine it with 3-d graphics, customizable avatars, and being able to actually shoot and aim instead of clicking on the person. I think that would actually make it fun for me. Graphics actually add more gameplay, such as a sky that rains better, seeing the moon, flying creatures that actually have a advantage by flying over seas at differant hieghts. |
Well, to a certain extent, yes BYOND isn't going to be as optomized as your average commercial multiplayer game--those games were built to do exactly one thing, so the programmers knew exactly what's going on and could tweak the network code to work with the games better. BYOND is a general-purpose engine, so it can't do this.
Still, it's not that noticeable an effect. The original Delve! tests on Dantom's server ran with very little noticeable lag at all for me, even though I was playing on a 56k modem at the time, and many first-person shooter servers would give me lag that many people would dub "unplayable." (These people are just spineless pansies, of course; a real man snipes with 500 ping). Miner League was another heavily action-oriented game that Dantom lent a server to on ocassion, and that, I'm told, was massively less efficient, yet I found it to be again far less laggy that the average server for, say, Half-Life. |
Have you ever seen over 7 seconds of lag? I did, while on the msn zone, i was playing Jedi Knight, the other guys ping was fluctuating between about 5000 and 10000. That my freinds is real lagg. Me being with cable my worst ping is usually about 250-400ms. I got 24 ms on mplayer for a long time.
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JordanUl wrote:
In your own opinion what games on BYOND do you think could make it on store shelves in their final release? In my opinion ShapeShifter would do good because its the kind of game some people enjoy playin g already, not its own genre. But I think Echelon would do the best. Its so close to a complete game, single player or multiplayer modes, differend boards, challenge modes, great graphics, and almost a hundred different ways you could configure a style of play. So in honor of one of my favorite games I will host it regularily. I don't think anyone would dish out today's game prices for BYOND games when they could be buying top-notch games from top notch companies - instead of lower-tech games from often unskilled BYOND designers. But, perhaps if people banded together and formed a "game pack" of sorts, it would be more successful. I'm not a marketing expert, so I wouldn't know, but if they did make a pack, here's some games that, if not already, could be made to fit into it: Shapeshifter would be a good choice, because it has lots of glitz and (apparently) very addicting gameplay. What more can you say about it? Echelon has plenty of glitz, but I think it needs some more gameplay enhancers, since it can still get boring after a while. LaserWars is defenitelly fun, and it has nice graphics too. Incursion is probably one of the most advanced BYOND games I've seen yet, if not thee. It has excellent graphics, plenty of glitz, and keep people lining up for hours to play. Tanks may not be totally read for that yet, but if the next generation of Tanks game comes out (which Shadowdarke says it will, eventually), then I'm sure that would fit in. Bunniflip is a fun game (so I hear), and I think with a few more visual enhancements it could be a good addition. DragonSnot, which hopefully will do something about getting the same piece over and over and over, is an excellent game and would fit in well. Runica, perhaps? Personally, I'm not sure that I like the game as a race because I think it would make a more interesting turn-based game (somehow), but it's still of high enough quality to qualify. Bombard. Everyone likes Bombard! I've heard good things about QuickStep, although I've never played it to find out. And that's my list for today. I won't include any RPGs since I don't think BYOND is suitable for making online RPGs right now, or at least, I've never seen any that are suitable to compete with the current market. It takes a lot of money to setup an good online RPG... |
I think Victor Von Doom would appear to be the initial winner, after using information about Galactus's energy siphoning apparatus gleaned from the sonic storage medium that is the body of Klaw to usurp the power of the Beyonder for himself. He would probably use that power to defeat the assembled heroes of earth with a single, awe-inspiring bolt of energy from the heavens, slaying them all... or would he? Perhaps he would underestimate the energy-resistant abilities of the bio-steel body of Piotr Rasputin, the uncanny X--Man known as Colossus, as well as the bond of love between him and a mysterious alien healer who would give her life to repair his ravaged body. With the regenerative technology of a long-dead alien race at his disposal, Colossus could likewise revive his fallen comrades for one last, desperate battle agains the seemingly omnipotent Doom and his servitors that would end only when the Beyonder, diminished but not destroyed, re-manifested in order to reclaim his stolen power from Doom.
Perhaps the real winner would be the Amazing Spider-Man, who discovered a strange new costume made of alien material that conforms to his will and produces its own webbing... except that this article of "clothing" would later prove to be a symbiotic/parasitic life form which would become one half of his greatest enemy, Venom. Maybe the real winner would be Ben Grimm, better known to the world as the Thing, who, at least while on the Beyonder's patchwork battleworld, would have one last chance to experience his humanity. Or perhaps... Oh, wait... you said BYONDer. Um, I swear I'm not a geek. |
edit: Incursion too