RaeKwon wrote:

Anyone good at C / C++ / Java? none the less, C++ i need a tutor and im willing to pay, im a fast learner and ready to listen, so, if you are interested, and have Any examples of your C++ work, online game or downloadable game, please post, thanks.
- RaeKwon

C: Use a string. Crash.

C++: Learn a complicated, inconsistent set of rules not unlike learning English. Create huge hierarchies. Inherit from three superclasses, override all operators, cast to the class you really wanted anyway. After three weeks, get "Hello world." Then, because you are using a C string for that, you crash.

Java: Well...it's a good starter language until you get to Mac OS X and can use Cocoa/Objective-C.

LordJR wrote:

:O) Oh man... what a whiner!! :P hehehe

But Deadron's got a point - These languages (C and C++) are getting old and require a lot of work and head-banging to get programs to do logical things that other languages are better at; better off learning (shudder)C#. Java is the better of the above three, and you can do some great stuff with it if you learn it right.

I prefer PHP for online *and* offline programming, and for decent multi-platform programming. I make more money that way (at least over here in Europe), compared to coding in Java... :)

Winbiko wrote:

They may be old but they still very much use them today... which says something. Hell linux was written in C. Most OS's are in c.

Pretty much everything that needs to be written for speed or at a system level needs to be done in C--or assembly.

Plus C and C++ have pointers.. most langs these days dont.

Yeah, basically these fourth-generation languages like Java and DM use references instead of pointers. If done well it can be a lot safer, but there are a few caveats to the system.

Here is the order I went:
HTML
VB
C
JAVA
C++
ASM for SNES
ASM for ti-86
PERL (my fav)
PASCAL
BYOND

Never met anyone who could program for a game console (not since most home computers were fancy game consoles, anyway), so that's pretty cool. But HTML isn't a programming language, so it really shouldn't be on that list. JavaScript could count, I suppose.

I learned programming in this order:

• Atari BASIC
• 6502 assembly
• C
• ZZT-OOP (ZZT)
• 80x86 assembly
• TADS (Text Adventure Development System)
• C++
• Pascal
• COBOL
• Visual Basic
• Visual C++
• Perl
• Java
• Robotic (MegaZeux)
• DM
  
  That list includes a few special-purpose languages I picked up, that nevertheless taught me something about programming. I took a Pascal course in college but I can't say I remember much; I'd need a refresher to use it again. I took two courses in COBOL (one very basic, one a little more advanced) for course requirements, but I don't remember a whole lot about that either. Both of those I consider dying languages. Perl I know a little bit, since I studied it when I modified a message board script for a Web site of mine several years ago. I've done a little in PHP, but so little that I can't justify putting it on the list.
  
  And of course, I counted Visual C++ separately from C++ because in many ways it's a different language. The "visual" stuff is really complex and takes a while to get used to. Likewise I put C++ separately from C because I learned straight C first, and C++ later.
  
  Of all the languages I've learned, my favorites so far have been DM, TADS, and Java: All for both power and elegance. Java has a certain grace to it that makes it like the beautiful ballerina daughter of C. TADS was born more out of Pascal, since it was programmed in Pascal, so it had a kind of hybrid Pascal/C syntax; it had excellent list support, loose types, and an object-oriented design similar to DM's but with multiple inheritance.
  
  Lummox JR

English wrote:

I can't decide whether to learn Perl or Java next. I was going to learn Java but now I'm leaning towards Perl because I've heard it's considerably different from C and C++ and I want to get a wider scope of languages under my belt.

Perl is definitely different, and it's worth learning.

Has anyone heard of Genie? My C programming teacher said it was an upcoming language that could replace C and C++ (kind of like Java tried :p) but I haven't heard anything about it since...

I for one have not. Languages tend to come and go as fads; only the ones that are really useful catch on and become part of the pantheon. Whether Genie can do that depends a lot on its structure and its origins.

But I can tell you this much: It won't replace C or C++. Nor did Java ever try to do that.

Java is an interpreted language using bytecode; its original inception was to create cross-platform portable code that had similar functionality to C, while relying on bits of native-compiled code to do the low-level system stuff. It could never even attempt to replace C because it wasn't a low enough level.

Now the reason I say this Genie won't replace C or C++, sight unseen, is that C is a robust language with a very logical syntax, capable of literally anything the computer can do (since inline assembly is pretty much always an option, for the toughest stuff) and of running on any platform with a compiler--indeed, it can compile code for other platforms if you have the right compiler and linker. C has a wide support base with decades behind it, all professional programmers worth their salt know it, and in spite of its complexity it's honed to a kind of rough elegance like a good pair of vise-grips. It's one of those things that--since C++ put on the finishing touches--is pretty much impossible to improve upon.

Fourth-generation languages like Visual Basic, Java, and DM trade off some of C's raw power for safety and simplicity. For application development, they really shine. What they buy you are things like bounds checking on arrays, dynamic arrays, easy hash tables, and clean string handling. With this kind of language you can actually get a very fast app if you have some way to compile it to native code, while you also avoid many of the most commonly exploited bugs found in C programs.

I suspect, though, the future (not the immediate future) is going to be one of pre-C compiling. That is, C will be used as an intermediate step like assembly is an intermediate step from C to the finished code. Inline C will be possible, to get down to the guts when necessary. Anyone who manages to combine the safety and visual design features of a 4th-gen language with the absolute power of C will develop a language worthy of succeeding Java--but it still won't replace C.

Lummox JR

Plus C and C++ have pointers.. most langs these days dont.

Lots of languages do, if they're machine-level and new.

and pointers are not too hard to understand.... unless you dont know what you are doing (smiles at spuzzum) jk jk.

What on Earth are you talking about? I understand pointers perfectly. I was simply never taught formally what their uses were; that's what I've been trying to express over the past couple of years. =P


I'm fully capable of writing a whole game in C++, using optimal data structures and the like, but the time involved -- especially for a single programmer -- is astronomical.

digitalmouse wrote:

I prefer PHP for online *and* offline programming, and
for decent multi-platform programming. I make more money
that way (at least over here in Europe), compared to
coding in Java... :)

Lucky bastard. ;)

My job at IBM has had me coding in Java on the Websphere platform for the last three or four years.

I'm facing a probable layoff, and I've already submitted my resume to several headhunters.

I've told them that I HATE the Websphere environment, and ultimately want a job which uses Visual Basic or PHP as the primary development language (both of which, unfortunately, I have no PROFESSIONAL experience with... just years worth of noodling around at home).

Guess what they keep sending me for potential positions :(

Regards,
Corporate Dog

Winbiko wrote:

your on crack.

They may be old but they still very much use them today... which says something. Hell linux was written in C. Most OS's are in c.

Thankfully, we're not trying to write OS's around here.

and pointers are not too hard to understand.... unless you dont know what you are doing (smiles at spuzzum) jk jk.

Pointers are very fun.

I have spent quite a lot of time using pointers...I (like the rest of the universe) have spent quite a lot of time debugging string-related pointer crashes.

In languages without pointers (or at least languages where strings aren't treated that way) an entire class of bugs simply disappears. You can be much more productive without them.

If you are doing something very low-level, then of course you have to use a low-level language. But for typical application purposes, there is no longer a need to use such languages....or at least what need there is is evaporating quickly.

Ooh ooh, my list is even better!

• DM
  
  Isn't it wonderful? :oP!
  I can make pretty pictures though, so nyah!

Deadron wrote:

If you are doing something very low-level, then of course you have to use a low-level language. But for typical application purposes, there is no longer a need to use such languages....or at least what need there is is evaporating quickly.

Thats what wrappers are for.. ever heard of those???

LJR

I can make pretty pictures too! Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, even if he does need glasses :p