Jul 24 2002, 10:17 am
In response to Lummox JR
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Dareb
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Ix-nay on the Ogic-Lay
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So your saying the non-profit organizations arent businesses?
Many people come to byond to code for fun. If they code for free and happen to be a part of a big project that outgrows byond, then all the better. Id be the one hosting it, Id be the one finalizing everything. Thats not easy and its time consuming. I want to start small and get big. i have owned Anarchy-games for 2 years now , we are a registered business but have no income. So trust me when i say this. businesses and organizations dont have to have an income of any source. these people would be donating their time to make a game for others to play. I think your thinking a little too big when the word company is involved. | |
Dareb wrote:
So your saying the non-profit organizations arent businesses? non-profit organizations have revenue and business plans, so I guess he wasn't saying that. | |
My logic is perfectly sound. I see things and find ways to solve problems. Only people that sit in a corner rocking back and forth talking to themselves have no logic. even autistic people have logic.
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Dareb wrote:
My logic is perfectly sound. I've yet to see a real demonstration of that point. A logical approach to the many debates you've been in so far would be to hear your opponents out, read their sources, and respond. Ignoring them outright is not logical, unless your goal is to retain your opinions and save face at all costs. I see things and find ways to solve problems. There are many ways to find ways to solve problems, logic being only one of them. Only people that sit in a corner rocking back and forth talking to themselves have no logic. even autistic people have logic. Um... not sure where you're going with that. But there's a big difference between "no logic" and "bad logic". Lummox JR | |
Dareb wrote:
Look. a business is a business. There is no set path. All businesses have to have money flowing in and money flowing out. (Most would prefer if none flowed out, but life doesn't work that way.) They have to have a business model they operate under, such that the flows are steady, or at least predictable. Without a business model you don't have a business; you have a group of people. For-profit businesses aim to take in more money than they spend; non-profit businesses aim to balance that out. Even panhandling has a business model, after a fashion: You have to know where to find the best "tips", when the best time of day is to collect, and roughly how much money you can expect to make on a day-to-day basis doing that. The problem with doing this in a BYOND game is that no one has much motivation to tip, and everyone will tend to tip you only once. Thus to make a business out of it, you have to be able to get along without tips; otherwise it's not a business. With a good enough game, though, you might be able to get a good subscription fee going. If that can be balanced against paying for a good server, then you'd have a business model to work with. Lummox JR | |
but eveen then there is only a certain amount of people that would even thikn of donating to subscribe, then you would only to subscribe once so not it would be kinda tough to work a plan with such random income
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thats just a common misconception.. Ive owned this business for 2 years.
Of course it hasnt moved an inch but my point is. It still exists. | |
Dareb wrote:
thats just a common misconception.. Ive owned this business for 2 years. If there's no business plan, there's no business. Owning a plot of land doesn't make it a house just because you say there's one. A house needs foundation, brick, timber, doors, windows, solid walls, a roof.... A business is a lot like that. There are at least a couple of essentials that have to exist before it can be called a business at all--even a failing or stagnant business. Lummox JR | |
imbecile. im saying that owning a business is the plot of land. not a house... the house would be the service provided by the business, and the employees and income would be the timber and wood and etc.. what you made was onc again something only an idiot would squeel out in a desparate attempt to prove me wrong.
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Just because you call it a business doesn't mean it's a business...
Even if it says on some document somewhere that it's a business...it's still not necessarily a real business... If you are not operating it (I.E. generating a product that is being bought by consumers) it is not a business... You have to be actually doing something for it to be a business... So far...you don't seem to have anything to show for it... So it is therefore not a business... This isn't to say that you can't turn it into a business... But right now, it is NOT a business... Regardless of what you want to call it... And don't even begin to accuse me of being one of Lummox's "followers"... I definitely have my disagreements with Lummox...and that feeling is mutual... But he's right about this...so I'm agreeing... | |
Dareb wrote:
imbecile. im saying that owning a business is the plot of land. not a house... the house would be the service provided by the business, and the employees and income would be the timber and wood and etc.. what you made was onc again something only an idiot would squeel out in a desparate attempt to prove me wrong. Once again you've had to resort to insults here. No, a business would be the house, not the plot of land. (Some of the basic assets would count for the plot, though, if you have them: Incorporated status, headquarters building, equipment, etc.) "Business" of course relates to the word "busy". There has to be some activity, something the business does, and it has to do it on a semi-regular basis. Saying "I want to be a restaurateur" does not put me in the restaurant business. I'd have to have a place to prepare and serve food, licenses, freezers and other kitchen equipment, a supply of food, etc. Likewise saying "I want to program games" does not put me in the game programming business--and I have programmed games, but never on a business basis. People who write software they don't expect to get paid for (except via occasional one-shot tips) don't do it for business, because there's no reasonable expectation of money flowing in regularly. Lummox JR | |
Once again you've had to resort to insults here. No, a business would be the house, not the plot of land. This is all i bothered reading. once again you deny me. so prove me wrong. give accurate descriptions of why im not right, AND why you are right. simply YOU being right doesnt mean IM wrong. and unless you prove me wrong, and yourself right , and do both accurately and within sense your entire argument is off the wall | |
Dareb wrote:
Once again you've had to resort to insults here. I already put a link to the dictionary.com page for the term "business" in another thread. The usage and context makes clear that all commercial uses of the word involve active work. give accurate descriptions of why im not right, AND why you are right. simply YOU being right doesnt mean IM wrong. Um... if we disagree on an atomic point, and one of us is right, the other is wrong. If the we disagree on a more complex issue, there's room for both of us to be part right, part wrong. and unless you prove me wrong, and yourself right , and do both accurately and within sense your entire argument is off the wall Correct me if I'm mistaken in this paraphrase: I'm going to rephrase your central point as best I can. "I've decided to program games, in cooperation with others or on my own, as a business. I've had this business for 2 years; it just hasn't done anything yet." That's what I believe you were saying. If you'd state it differently, please feel free to do so. By definition, a business that does nothing is not a business. Your "business" never went past the decision stage. It has no revenue except the ultra-sporadic form of tips, spends nothing, currently produces nothing, and holds no assets. What you have is a dream, not a business; it may be one someday, if you work at it and treat it like a business (by developing a serious business model, first and foremost), but right now it's not even much of an activity. And that's not meant as a slam; it's just the way the words fall. If I say I've got a business, but it does nothing, makes no money, and has no customers, it's not a business. If on the other hand you said you have a specific plan in mind for making revenues, got some capital to get started, set a specific production goal and worked on it steadily, picked up a staff (slightly optional), and were truly working toward a release along a businesslike schedule, that would in fact be a business. At this point you're still looking for a staff and don't have a specific product in mind (though I think you do have a few ideas); but until you get capital involved, you're talking about a development group, not a business. Lummox JR | |
You're right that someone just proved you wrong, but on a fair grander scale than you imagine.
SuperSaiyan provided no new information, no "proof", and yet, you accepted his word were you kept insulting Lummox for asserting the same things. The only reason you accepted SSGX's word is he isn't one of the people you have decided is out to get you, one of the "hate mongers." You have just blown whatever small amount of credibility you may have had in the past. | |
