ID:191050
 Nov 3 2002, 8:59 pm (Edited on Nov 8 2002, 2:44 am)
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There is nothing to notice!
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MajinRaditz wrote:
Over my recent 6 months that I have been on Byond for I have noticed somthing. That is that alot of the coders are [jackasses] they really don't even care about the newbies but they come to forget that they to were once newbies! Oddly enough I see the exact opposite every day: Our experienced programmers are among the most eager to help the newbie community. I do see, too, some exasperation that so many of those newbies concentrate on way-too-ambitious projects or on things that have been done to death. (Insert 3-letter abbreviation here.) And a couple of those newbies can be hostile or demanding, and more than a couple are vague in what they really want. But if you're mistaking that exasperation--which is far less apparent than the help these people do offer--for the usual behavior of people, then you're not seeing the forest for the trees. Moreover you're blaming the wrong people for forgetting they were once newbies; the best developers among us are the most keenly aware that they were newbies once. There is however a class, if you will, of internewbiates who come in with a false idea that being a newbie is somehow something to look down on (these are the kind of people who use the term "noob"), and look at experience as a social ladder. Those people will in fact quickly browbeat newbies, but you'll find most in the community--at least those who do give a crap about making it a better place, which is a considerable portion--have no truck with that. Lummox JR | |
I'm not all that great of a coder. I'm aimed more towards graphics... but anyways, I'm always willing to help someone out. If they don't page me constantly:
hey can u help me with sumthin ... plz? ... hello? ... god i hate u I rather dislike those people, they expect everything to be dished to them on a silver plater. I'm not saying you are one of these, but these are the kinds of people that just annoy me. I would help someone if they said "Hey Dracon, whats up? How's life?", and then slowly got into "Hey, would you mind helping me with someone pretty quick?" Well, that's my opinion.... -Chris- | |
I know where you're coming from. I know what you mean when you say they don't (seem to) help the newbies. However, there are a lot of things to consider, no? There might be just the slightest chance that they are BUSY people. And if you do some posting on the newbie boards a lot of the experienced coders will reply to your messages with what they can help you with. Give them some time, give them a chance. It's better than bugging them.
-Dagolar | |
When I was a newbie, I didn't call the experienced coders jackasses or any other names, not even the ones that didn't have time to spend watching the Newbie Central or Code Help forums. Apparently, times do change.
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Leftley wrote:
When I was a newbie, I didn't call the experienced coders jackasses or any other names, not even the ones that didn't have time to spend watching the Newbie Central or Code Help forums. Apparently, times do change. Times don't change at all. As it was in BYOND's humble beginnings, those beginners who are patient, who ask questions politely and in the correct forums, and who don't bother people non-stop on the pager about coding questions instead of posting them in the appropriate places become gurus. | |
This community gives more help to people in need than any other community I've seen. Sometimes the responses are bitter or offer no help, but in 99% of the cases that is due to the person asking a question.
When you ask a question, you should expect a response of similar value and time spent compared to your own. If you ask something like this: dude my flying system doesnt work give me one Then expect to get a response like this: There's no such thing as a flying system. Be more indepth, propose your question in a proper way, try for some time on your own, and someone might help you. However, asking something like this: I have a system where you can fly, raising the mob's layer and offsetting pixel values. I've run some debugging on it, and can't find out exactly where it goes wrong. Could someone clue me in on where the error is at? Here is the debugging output by Dream Seeker, and the code centered on the problem: [debugging output] ... [code] ... You might get a much better response. Remember that people are here of their own free will. It's not anyones obligation to answer your question, and people have other things to do besides sit refreshing the forum screen eagerly waiting for questions to answer. Be patient, ask the question in a nice, informative way, and you will get a nice, informative response. | |
In this community, is Guru a looked upon status appointed by others of that status? Or is it a mere term used to describe those who are familiar enough with the language to help others, and does so?
If this term is looked upon as my first statement, than I have to say it is misused (And I notice a good number of people misusing it), and the correct term for these people would be "Administrators". I believe myself as a guru status as I have taught a handful of people the basic language and others I have pointed in the right direction, but it seems you believe this term only refers to those that follow every rule and upholds the appropriate attitude, in response I would have to tell you that you are sadly mistaken. --Ken-- P.S:Dont take this as an insult, but rather a mere correction and opinionative statement. | |
MajinRaditz wrote:
Over my recent 6 months that I have been on Byond for I have noticed somthing. That is that alot of the coders are [jackasses] they really don't even care about the newbies but they come to forget that they to were once newbies! It's good to see that you aren't letting your six months of experience here get in the way of your ignorance. There are plenty of "newbies" who do just fine. The ones that have problems are those that don't want to learn, they just want to be handed their game on a silver platter. If someone pages me and asks me for the code to one of my combat systems, I'm likely to ignore them. If they asked for pointers or help getting started in designing one, I'm usually happy to lend them a hand. When it comes to people asking questions on the forums, it is annoying to answer the same questions over and over, when the person asking the question could do a simple search of the forums and find what they are looking for. You'd have to try pretty hard to find a question to ask that hasn't been asked and answered before on the forums--they are by far the best resource that BYOND has to offer. Heck, when I was first starting out, I didn't know that setting a mob's density to 0 could allow them to move through dense objects. Searching the forums answered what would have been an annoying question to everyone else. | |
MajinRaditz wrote:
Over my recent 6 months that I have been on Byond for I have noticed somthing. That is that alot of the coders are [jackasses] they really don't even care about the newbies but they come to forget that they to were once newbies! Here are just a few ways people try to help newcomers: http://www.byond.com/hub/DM/Tutorials http://www.byond.com/hub/DM/Demos http://www.byond.com/hub/DM/Library http://www.deadron.com/byond/ ByondBwicki.dmb?FrequentlyAskedQuestions http://www.byondscape.com If you check out these links, you'll find that hundreds of hours have been spent answering nearly every question a person could have. Those hours were all donated to the community to help people. They don't even include the greater number of hours spent answering questions on the forums. You've been here 6 months, so apparently you know a couple of things: How much have you contributed to these sources? | |
NeoHaxor wrote:
I believe myself as a guru status as I have taught a handful of people the basic language and others I have pointed in the right direction, but it seems you believe this term only refers to those that follow every rule and upholds the appropriate attitude, in response I would have to tell you that you are sadly mistaken. A guru is a mentor. It takes both knowledge of the system and a willingness to help to be a guru. I'm not sure how you thought I meant otherwise. I said those that are patient and who follow the rules are the ones that become gurus. And is it any wonder? Teaching takes far more discipline and patience than learning. | |
I believe it generally refers to someone who's skilled in DM while also being a respectable community member.
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What I got from your statement is that you thought guruship was achieved solely by acceptance due to behavior, and that is a part, but I was just stating that it takes some knowledge and willingness to help others. *Again this was just a bit of a clearing up and nothing in offense to anyone*
--Ken-- | |
What I got from your statement is that you thought guruship was achieved solely by acceptance due to behavior, and that is a part, but I was just stating that it takes some knowledge and willingness to help others. Yes. The behavior in question is knowledge and willingness to help. Acceptance due to behavior is a good thing. | |
SilkWizard wrote:
When it comes to people asking questions on the forums, it is annoying to answer the same questions over and over, when the person asking the question could do a simple search of the forums and find what they are looking for. You'd have to try pretty hard to find a question to ask that hasn't been asked and answered before on the forums--they are by far the best resource that BYOND has to offer. Heck, when I was first starting out, I didn't know that setting a mob's density to 0 could allow them to move through dense objects. Searching the forums answered what would have been an annoying question to everyone else. Maybe we should start paying attention to the questions that keep getting asked and move some of the answers given on the forum to the FAQ. | |
Nah, then we'd all see it too much and it would get annoying as... uh... something that's really, really annoying.
I think there should be a link to it in Tutorials. The thing about things on the internet is that people won't see them unless you link to them in a prominent location. Hell, for my first few months I didn't even KNOW there was a FAQ! | |
And this isn't a code problem.