In response to Hedgemistress
The knife through the ribs part got me.

Not..

Its called murder and under the ten commandments I have its boldly says "Thou shall not kill".

God destroyed cities due to the impureness of (gay,adultry,murder,praising false Gods.)

As far as the same sex relationships being "natural" I strongly disagree with. Human has thier own choice of right and wrong it doesn't go by nature. Being gay is wrong and sinfull. But there is always an openhand to forgivness and repention.
In response to Jacob
The knife through the ribs part got me.

Not..

My point exactly. The fact that a knife fits through the ribs doesn't prove it's meant to go there. I threw that in there to show the problem with "if the shoe fits" argument commonly used to support heterosexuality as the only valid way.

Its called murder and under the ten commandments I have its boldly says "Thou shall not kill".

So, if you didn't have a book that told you it's not okay to kill, you couldn't think of a single reason why it wouldn't be okay otherwise? That's the problem with Bible-based morality. You know that killing and stealing is wrong, but you don't know why, other than "Somebody more powerful than me has said so." If that's the only reason you can think of not to kill someone, remind me not to sit next to you.

God destroyed cities due to the impureness of (gay,adultry,murder,praising false Gods.)

According to your book of myths. But again, I'm not here to debate the validity of that book.

As far as the same sex relationships being "natural" I strongly disagree with.

Tell that to the pandas and the penguins and the lizards and so on, and while you're at it, tell it to the God who made them. Tell it to the God who made me. Tell your creator that's He's wrong.
In response to Jacob
if you read that part of soddom and gamorrah, it clearly speaks out against the masses having sex with eachother.. it mentions homosexuality vaguely, but also mentions pedophilia. I believe that it was not so focused on those distortions of sex, those perversions.. it was boldly speaking out against orgies.
In response to Geminidomino
you cant judge people because others wont take kindly to that, so for the sake of your own safety and to ensure the survival of your bloodline, its better to just listen to the masses
In response to Jacob
There is no proof that Jehova is it's name. on that very same premise gods name is also dareb, or rock..
In response to Hedgemistress
Hedgemistress wrote:
I'm not trying to dictate morality to you... I'm trying to instruct you in logic, the only way to find a common morality not founded on blind faith. :P As for knowing what goes on in your head, you've told us. You find violence acceptable to an appaling degree. You believe that two fists and a personal code of honor are better than the organized rule of law.

I find the current "Rule of law" to be anything but "organized". Until the "Rule of Law" meets my own standards, which is not very likely, I will CONTINUE to beleive such.


You say that you will not hit anyone who can't defend themselves, but that a man who can't defend himself should know better than to get into a position where he would have to defend himself from you. Are you saying you would or wouldn't attack such a man? If so, then taken withyour comments about women, your stance must be construed as, "I will not hit anyone who can't defend themselves, unless they're a man. This is especially true if they're a woman." In other words, it's still boiling down to, are they a man or are they a woman?

Or are they a child, or are they an invalid, or are they elderly... Your man/woman dichotomy is innacurate.

I don't go around randomly punching people, as you seem to be convinced of. In fact, I haven't had to use my fists in a few years.

You raise a lot of valid points about society, but your conclusions show your barbarity. "Our bloated tort law system must be reformed... no wait, we'll just settle our disputes by fighting!"

Fighting is preferable to what we have now, far simpler. Considering the ones who would have to decide to reform it are the ones who would be hurt by its reformation, I dont see the tort law system being changed any time soon.


Didn't I see you posting something about how many billions of years of evolution it took to produce you? I bet our shared single-celled ancestor would be thrilled to learn how evolved you are. :P


When all else fails, ad hominem, eh? I see no point in continuing any sort of discourse with you. Your aim seems to be to hurl insults and try to convince me I am wrong, so I'll save you the trouble. I consider YOU to be an evolutionary ancestor, and you are not worth the time, with the weak-kneed arguments and ad hominem attacks, to argue further.
In response to Jacob
Jacob wrote:
Humans doesn't have the final judgement. Jehova does.

Maybe in your mind.

Keep in mind, some of us aren't Christians/Jewish/Moslim and don't care what some overblown desert tribal deity says.
In response to Dareb
Dareb wrote:
you cant judge people because others wont take kindly to that, so for the sake of your own safety and to ensure the survival of your bloodline, its better to just listen to the masses

You've got to be kidding me. PLEASE tell me that was tongue-in-cheek.
In response to Maz
I don't know what "War is not an easy thing to block out" means, when it has little to do on what I said, but notice how they had that large issue on gays in the military? It's still going on for a matter of fact, it's just the news doesn't publicize it as much as they used to. That was one of the issues, such as gay men being distracted, and the men feeling uncomfortable.



<<>>Kusanagi<<>>
In response to Geminidomino
Made a poweful enemy, you have.

/me cringes
In response to Jotdaniel
Jotdaniel wrote:
Made a poweful enemy, you have.

/me cringes

You must be joking.
In response to Geminidomino
http://developer.byond.com/forum/ index.cgi?action=message_read&id=30771&forum=3&view=0

Thats the first reply to my first post on the byond forum.
In response to Geminidomino
Great tactic! Disregard my actual points, twist what I say around, and then declare that you're finished.

Let's watch this one play in slow motion:

I say that the degree to which you find violence acceptable is appaling, you come back by saying, "I don't go around punching people at random, like you seem to think."

Did I say, "The degree to which you find violence acceptable, that degree being the point at which you just start punching people at random, is appalling."
Have I once said that you go punching people at random? Nope. I say you're "too willing" to resort to violence. I haven't said exactly how willing you are. I will not, because, as you're quick to point out, I cannot. Only you have that specific information. Based on information you've provided, though, I'm comfortable saying you are "too willing."

So, you have not only put words into my mouth/ideas into my head but you manage to accuse me of doing the same thing in the same breath! Astonishing! Is the people who're allowed to tell others what they think another man/woman thing, or is it just you?

As for the insults... you apparently believe you're being insulted because you don't like being called "uncivilized"... but whether or not it's an insult depends entirely on how much you value "civilization." I value civilization, and so to call me uncivilized is an insult. Based on your stances, I would say it's clear that you're railing against overcivilization... so where's the insult? If you don't agree with the "rule of law", and believe there's nothing wrong with settling a dispute with fists then why does being called "uncivilized" hurt you? That's like saying, "I'm proud of living from Germany, being born and raised there, but don't you dare call me German!"

Yes, I have called you barbaric, unevolved, and uncivilized. I stand by this.

You have stated that a flawed fistfight is an improvement over a flawed court system (Why I say flawed: Does the better person always win a fist fight? Do back alley brawls never result in a disproportionate penalty paid by one side?) Deny that such barbarism is a bad thing if you want to, but do not dare deny it is barbaric.

You have stated that society is overly complicated and should be reduced to a simpler time, a simpler state. This is the exact reverse of evolution... starting at a complex state that came about over time through trial and error, and moving backwards to a simpler one. Now, you can argue against the value of evolution's end product if you want, but you cannot do so and at the same time become angry for having your "simpler times" viewpoint labelled "unevolved."

As for uncivilized, I believe I've covered that one enough.

I'm not insulting you... I'm apply labels to your views. If the labels "uncivilized", "barbaric", and "unevolved" bother you, ask yourself why. Perhaps you're being overly hasty in throwing out the values you profess to reject.

Take the rule of law. Yes, there are numerous high-profile examples of lawsuits that abuse the system and make a mockery of justice. Why do you know about them? Because they're high-profile. Why are they high-profile? Because there's something exceptional about these cases. Key word here: exceptional.

You acknowledge the existence of the weak, the elderly, the handicapped, etc... you know they have no option to protect themselves or exact retribution or gain satisfaction through a fist fight. Would you have the civil court system scrapped in favor of back alley brawls, even though it would disenfranchise all these people who need the courts the most? The fact that predatory lawyers also need the courts shouldn't be enough to disregard the needs of the people the court system was actually designed to benefit.

The rule of law isn't perfect, but it wisely refrains from beating the hell out of the alternative.
In response to Kusanagi
Those "issues" are just people's ideas on what might happen, they're theoretical justifications being offered for a nonsensical ban. Israel has been in a state that might be described as "near-constant war" since its inception, and it allows gays to serve openly. Britain has no such ban, either... you'd think with all the distraction going on, they'd be shooting down their allies or something. If we want to bring in anecdotes, I could point you to articles written by and about U.S. service people who are semi-out (out to their friends, their unit, etc., but not to the brass), and the responses from people around them.

All the "concerns" and "issues" are being raised by people who never want to see the military integrated. They're pure speculation, logical-sounding reasons being offered to prop up an illogical discrimination.

Now, let's say, okay, distraction may or may not occur, but being that people's lives are on the line, let's not find out. Okay, what about support roles? After all, women serve in support roles, and "distraction" is one of the issues that blocks them, as well. There are certain positions the army sorely needs to fill: doctors, linguists, technicians, etc. How does the fact that the intepreter interrogating a prisoner of war is gay distract the boys on the front line?
In response to Jotdaniel
Jotdaniel wrote:
http://developer.byond.com/forum/ index.cgi?action=message_read&id=30771&forum=3&view=0

Thats the first reply to my first post on the byond forum.

I fail to see the connection. What does LexyBitch have to do with anything?


[EDIT] Ah, her old key. Powerful? I think not. A powerful voice does not power make. As far as an enemy, no. One has to respect one's enemies.

One simple proxomitron rule and I can make her not exist as far as I'm concerned. So I'm not too worried about it

In response to Geminidomino
That's my old key. It's also a great reference for you of what an actual insult would look like, if one were to be directed at you.
In response to Hedgemistress
Thought it might be something like that.

No, that's not an insult. That's a pointless flame, complete with boldfacing and increased font size. Not quite enough bangs ("!") though.

In response to Geminidomino
It may have been on the flamey side, but it wasn't pointless. Read the rest of that thread and you will see that there was a method to my mad-ness. A proliferation of imitators who didn't understand the subtlety of my method (that is, they felt that screaming insults was always the first resort best way to get results) forced me to stop, but for a while, it was a great way to teach newbies the importance of going through the steps.

As for the central issue here, it certainly was an insult. Calling someone who advocates less civility "uncivilized" is an insult but calling someone "inestimably stupid" isn't? It was also a flame, yes, but the reason it was a flame instead of just noisy spam is because it was insulting.
In response to Hedgemistress
Great question, but I could not really answer it since I am just saying what I am certain about from some research, then again it is from the media, which is not the most accurate form of information it seems. In my personal opinion, there are still some very ignorant and ruthless people left in this world, and ignorance can cause people who can't handle something to be afraid, and for guys that makes some of us act angry. I wouldn't have much of a problem, but there are many people who werent raised in a diverse enviroment, which can cause them confusion socially.


<<>>Kusanagi<<>>
In response to Hedgemistress
All right, what the hell. I'll humor you.

Great tactic! Disregard my actual points, twist what I say around, and then declare that you're finished.

I don't normally suffer fools gladly. I guess I'm feeling generous today.


Let's watch this one play in slow motion:

I say that the degree to which you find violence acceptable is appaling, you come back by saying, "I don't go around punching people at random, like you seem to think."

It's called "subtext." You must be a wonderful speaker if you can use it so effectively and not even know it. Quite a few of your arguments rely on the unspoken mental image of burning and pillaging.


Did I say, "The degree to which you find violence acceptable, that degree being the point at which you just start punching people at random, is appalling."
Have I once said that you go punching people at random?

See the above paragraph about subtext. What you say explicitly is not the only factor.


Nope. I say you're "too willing" to resort to violence. I haven't said exactly how willing you are. I will not, because, as you're quick to point out, I cannot. Only you have that specific information. Based on information you've provided, though, I'm comfortable saying you are "too willing."

According to some people, ANY use of violence is too willing. That's their choice. If they keep it to themselves, then we often get along rather well. It's when empty-headed bloviating loudmouth suggests that I'm somehow wrong because I don't agree with her, that I get irritated.


So, you have not only put words into my mouth/ideas into my head but you manage to accuse me of doing the same thing in the same breath! Astonishing! Is the people who're allowed to tell others what they think another man/woman thing, or is it just you?

I didn't tell you what you think. You made that abundantly clear... repeatedly and vociferously.

As for the insults... you apparently believe you're being insulted because you don't like being called "uncivilized"... but whether or not it's an insult depends entirely on how much you value "civilization." I value civilization, and so to call me uncivilized is an insult. Based on your stances, I would say it's clear that you're railing against overcivilization... so where's the insult? If you don't agree with the "rule of law", and believe there's nothing wrong with settling a dispute with fists then why does being called "uncivilized" hurt you? That's like saying, "I'm proud of living from Germany, being born and raised there, but don't you dare call me German!"

I don't care what you call me. Don't be of the delusion that your opinion effects me in the slightest.

However, since you asked, the attempted insult I was referring to was that comment about "I'm sure our shared single-celled ancestor..." etc... While it didn't bother me, it did mark you as someone pointless to argue with.


Yes, I have called you barbaric, unevolved, and uncivilized. I stand by this.

Then I'll counter with calling you a soft, weak-minded societal follower. I stand by this.

Where do I get that from? I'll explain.

What you call "Barbaric" I call "strong".
What you call "unevolved" I call "superior"
What you call "uncivilized" I call "independant thought"

Which means you just complimented me, and I returned the favor. Though I think by my choice of words, like yours, you won't exactly see it that way.

You have stated that a flawed fistfight is an improvement over a flawed court system (Why I say flawed: Does the better person always win a fist fight? Do back alley brawls never result in a disproportionate penalty paid by one side?) Deny that such barbarism is a bad thing if you want to, but do not dare deny it is barbaric.

I didn't say anything about back alley brawls, so put the strawman away please. I'm referring to one-on-one standard fights. I DO beleive those are better than letting someone else fight a man's battles for him.


You have stated that society is overly complicated and should be reduced to a simpler time, a simpler state. This is the exact reverse of evolution... starting at a complex state that came about over time through trial and error, and moving backwards to a simpler one.

Wrong. Evolution is not a function of Society, its a function of a species. Society is cyclcic, NOT linear. Barbarism->Civilization->Decadence->Barbarism->r epeat

Now, you can argue against the value of evolution's end product if you want, but you cannot do so and at the same time become angry for having your "simpler times" viewpoint labelled "unevolved."

Only by those who understand neither society nor evolution.

I'm not insulting you... I'm apply labels to your views.

No, you did that plenty and I never mentioned it. That crack about our "shared single-celled ancestor" was a direct attempt at an attack on me, not my views nor my beleifs. Look up "ad hominem."

If the labels "uncivilized", "barbaric", and "unevolved" bother you, ask yourself why. Perhaps you're being overly hasty in throwing out the values you profess to reject.

Nothing you say bothers me.


Take the rule of law. Yes, there are numerous high-profile examples of lawsuits that abuse the system and make a mockery of justice. Why do you know about them? Because they're high-profile. Why are they high-profile? Because there's something exceptional about these cases. Key word here: exceptional.

Acutally, no. There are many that people DON'T all hear about that are just as bad. There's more information to be had out there than just on the TV news.

You acknowledge the existence of the weak, the elderly, the handicapped, etc... you know they have no option to protect themselves or exact retribution or gain satisfaction through a fist fight. Would you have the civil court system scrapped in favor of back alley brawls, even though it would disenfranchise all these people who need the courts the most?


Again with the "Back alley brawls" strawman, huh?


The fact that predatory lawyers also need the courts >shouldn't be enough to disregard the needs of the people >the court system was actually designed to benefit.

Very little in society, especially the US, is performing as it was "designed."

Shock of shocks, the government was actually supposed to "serve the people" at one point.


The rule of law isn't perfect, but it wisely refrains from beating the hell out of the alternative.

I think you're mistaking "rule of law" for "rule of justice"

Laws have exceptions and loopholes and backroom deals for "campaign donations." Justice doesn't.
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